Biden: We’ve been reluctantly supporting a very close ally, but it’s gone too far, and now we’re publicly condemning while admittedly still funding them. It’s a complicated situation, and I’m a cautious centrist.
Trump: Why are there still buildings standing in Gaza? That won’t happen on my watch. May as well wipe out the West Bank while we’re at it.
For the life of me, I can’t tell the difference. I have no idea who to vote for to help the Palestinians.
There is no one to vote for to help the Palestinians.
The only hope for Gaza is for Biden to change course and use his significant leverage to convince Bibi to end the blockade.
If the status quo of famine is allowed to continue, there will be no Gazans left to bomb when Trump is sworn in on Jan 2025.
The only hope for Gaza is for Biden to change course and use his significant leverage to convince Bibi to end the blockade.
Five months and almost 31,000 Palestinian deaths later, he’s still just wagging his finger and sending even more arms to Israel.
We might as well just wait for the Pope to shit in the woods.
Edit: Here’s the most likely reason for the downvotes.
(NSFW - language)
Biden is literally changing course right now.
Nah the Pope is going after the real threat. Trans youth. I wish that I was kidding…
Over the past few months, Francis had to cancel a few activities and one international trip due to his fragile health, which has recently raised worries over his capacity to continue to lead the Catholic Church.
Maybe he’s having cognitive issues, too, which might explain (but not excuse) his erratic behavior.
30,000 people are dead. Daily death tolls have fallen by 20% per month since the beginning of the war.
How are you getting to 2,300,000 within ten months?
Can you show your work?
People in northern Gaza have described in detail about their decline.
In the first month or two, they ate the remaining food and slaughtered the animals. Then they ate animal feed for months. When that was gone, they ate bird seed. Now with nothing left, they eat grass.
When it’s only grass, people start to die. Children and elderly first. And that is the stage of famine we are at now.
People can survive a long time on very low food. But they can’t survive forever.
So all 2.3 million people in Gaza ignored the first evacuation orders and warnings and instead of going South, they all went to north Gaza where they proceeded to eat all the food and are now starving to death, and despite only 30,000 deaths in four months, you believe that this month there will be 230,000, and that figure will continue for the next ten months in a row? I don’t know sort of seems like you’re exaggerating Israel’s actions to portray Jews as evil.
If the total death toll doesn’t increase by eightfold in the next month will that be sufficient evidence that claims of ethnic cleansing and weaponized starvation are highly exaggerated?
Ohhh the daily DEATH AND TERROR AND MADNESS HAS DROPPED BY 20%!!
CANCEL EVERYTHING LOL!
So 80 people die instead of 100… That totally means there is no genocide rofl
When your highly nuanced and extremely educated political stance is obliterated by an extremely obvious fact that you forgot to consider because you got lost in the sauce of [current hot conversation topic] for [I’m a Leftist!™] identifying individuals.
I mean I was personally waiting for Trump to say the obvious and finish the punchline for the last couple weeks honestly.
I mean, thats good, but unfortunately a huge (over-representative?) amount of online leftist discourse is so subsumed by extremely emotionally driven short sighted glomming onto bullying a particular person that they often say things that are basically obviously ludicrous if you either take a few deep breathes and think about what you’re saying, or if you’re not really involved in the often extremely petty nature of discourse around/perpetuated by many popular online leftists.
But hey, Not All Leftists, I guess?
Its frankly deeply embarrassing to accurately describe myself as a leftist and then have less politically engaged people often think I’m like one of these over the top internet personalities, and also infuriating when I describe myself as a leftist to other leftists online, who then usually woke scold and purity shame me for having non ludicrous positions.
Hell I’m still banned from like half the hexbear and lemmy.ml communities for pointing out that maybe Taiwan has expressed a desire for governmental sovereignty, you know kind of like Ukraine, even though its obviously not a perfect society, it doesnt deserve to be invaded or subverted by a neighboring state?
Nah. Verbotten opinions.
I think the latest hexbear community to ban me did so because I posted a response to an ‘enigmatic, therefore funny and awesome’ meme on weibo.
The meme, a kind of wojack meme, boils down to ‘Dengist reforms allowed western influence into China, which has resulted in nowadays Chinese incels pretend to be black men online to pick up chicks because many Chinese basically racistly view black men as all having giant cocks.’
But you can’t even hint that parts of Chinese society might be gasp racist, or even have segments that view women as only interested in big dicked men because this breaks the brains of many online Western leftists that Chinese society is not actually perfect.
Its even more baffling to me that many online Leftists barely ever mention, or tie themselves up in absurd logical/rhetorical pretzels about how just in general many East Asian societies and ethnicities have large chunks that are extremely racist towards other East Asian and other ethnicities, basically because a good number of East Asian societies are nominally communist or socialist, so that must mean they’ve solved racism.
I think all of what you said there can be summed up with.
Comrade, leftists sure can be infuriating to deal with and talk to, huh?
Pretty sure the most vocal ones arent the most productive ones, and as with most ideologies aren’t really representative of the majority. But still can be a headache for everyone involved.
I got banned for pointing out obvious right wing propaganda from a known right wing shill and was told it “emotionally confirmed” how they felt about Biden, so it didn’t matter if it wasn’t entirely factual.
I mean how do you fight back against that?People are such emotional little idiots about the things they feel. It’s nicer to feel right than be it, because reality is very very often very disappointing. But compromise makes you feel wronger.
We are in very emotional times for sure.It’s more comfortable intellectually to think that if everyone was just in favor of X, all the world’s problems would disappear. It’s like an ignorance is bliss effect.
Blahaj is the craziest to me. There’s a huge hexbear influence there. It’s like, yo, if you physically tried to go to Russia you would probably be beaten and murdered just for existing.
Hexbear is Pro Russia, and pro Trans rights, what’s so hard to understand?/s
Is that what Biden has said or is that what you want him to say?
Nope that’s what he has said and has been saying. Are you trolling or just ignorant?
What about his actions? How many bombs used in this genocide were sent by the US?
We live in a democracy. Maybe you’re thinking of the Arab states surrounding Israel, where one guy decides everything?
We don’t send bombs to Israel because they need them to kill Hamas. Israel makes all the weapons they need to do that without America. It is a nuclear power. America sends weapons to Israel because of the threat of Iran. And it’s not going to stop doing that because of a local land dispute. Our alliance with Israel is about avoiding a war with Iran, which would result in tens of millions of deaths.
10,000,000 > 30,000. Simple as that.
Gross lol.
This is what I’ve been pointing out all along… Say what you want about Biden funding Israel, Trump is actively worse.
And no, Jill Stein or Cornell West are not viable alternatives.
Just voted for Gabriel Cornejo in my state’s primary. Looked him up, liked his policies, voted for him instead of Vermin Supreme, because no way am I voting for Biden in the primary. It’s purely symbolic, let’s be real, but I did ultimately vote for someone with leftist platform.
It’s not purely symbolic. The bigger candidates often start to address policy positions represented by smaller candidates who get enough votes in the primaries as a way to sway those voters in the general election.
Absolutely! If we can show that there are votes to be taken up by repositioning policies just a little or adding some, then it absolutely in a working 2 party system moves the closest party to adopt those in order to get the votes. And then it’s up to consistent pressure to make sure they are worked on while in office, pest they lose trust and that voter base forever.
It’s a shame, I’m pretty sure the US is not in a working or stable 2 party system.
Yeah, it’s not a total solution, but it’s better than letting the Dems pander to the centrists.
Yeah but the centrists are easy fodder while the right wing has been shifting more to the right after losing support over the years and seeing the fringe party voters as votes they could pick up.
The centrists don’t have a party as easy to back and thus Democrats are picking them up by moving even more center.Unless they think they need the progressive votes, which they don’t at the moment, they won’t care as much for trying to pick up left fringe voters. The middle is just bigger tastier looking prey.
Yeah, that was my point. The primaries are a chance to vote progressive to send the dominant candidate a message.
Right. I’m disagreeing that it will have much of an effect though. Centrists are adrift that would normally vote “fiscally conservative but socially liberal” and lean more Republican because of the bad taste Trump left in their mouth but I think Democrats assume that is an easy voter based to capture by just not doing anything overly crazy and acting fiscally conservative and centrist in their ideology.
So Democrats might pick up some minor left leaning points to make sure they get enough of the left leaning populace but unless a 3rd party candidate gets an incredible primary, in the current state, I don’t expect them to adjust policy much at all. Centrist just likely seems the safer bet to them which is dangerous if they lose them but they are against Trump and MAGA so it’s somewhat a safe gamble.
In better times primarying works but here, and right now, I don’t think the Democrats give a flying fuck.
This right here. There’s no actual threat of weakening Biden by voting against him in the primary, because there’s no real candidate running against him. Voting uncommitted or for a write in the primary is a great way to leverage your voting power without empowering trump.
Yeah, in the primary all options are valid to vote for, even if it’s just symbolic. That still shows where people stand. However, in the general you pick who you need to pick in order to get the best outcome. You don’t get to vote for symbolism then, at least if you’re a rational person and not just doing something out of an emotional attempt to feel better than other people. It sucks, but that’s how the system functions for now at least. Acting morally superior doesn’t do anything except allow the morally corrupt to get their way.
Gabriel Cornejo Identified the leading problem in the country and hired the smartest person in the world to fix it.
But what about naz-yay? (Yeay? Yeah?)
The irony of literally anyone (eligible) not voting for Biden specifically because of his handling of the Gaza situation, and thereby doing their part to help Donald “Gotta Finish the Problem” Trump win, makes my bones hurt. I hate this timeline and I don’t want to live on this planet anymore.
Not voting for Biden in the primaries is perfectly fine.
Agreed and I did the same yesterday. Will vote for Biden in the end, but I registered my complaint. As best I can tell, his tone shifted after Michigan so we’ll see if there is more change on the horizon.
I’m usually skeptical of protest votes, but these primary protest votes are actually effective for the same reason voting is effective. Politicians aren’t as static as we want to believe- their number one priority is reelection. When you vote, you are telling the candidates that you are politically useful and they will begin to pay attention to your needs. When you vote for all levels of government, you are giving deeper detail into what your needs are.
If a significant portion of a district votes for a Democrat as president, and then a Republican for state representative, the democratic administration will likely make more conservative decisions if they see that portion of the electorate as critical to reelection.
This naturally reveals a big problem with the electoral college, as there are maybe 5 states with critical demographics needed to win reelection. The people in Ohio, Nevada, Arizona, Georgia, and Michigan are more influential to the type of administration a Republican or Democrat would run.
If the Gaza protest vote happened in Washington State or California, I doubt Biden would have reacted as much as he did for Michigan. That said, this problem politicians face goes from the President of the US down to the president of your HOA. So I’ll acknowledge that the power of voting fluctuates depending on the specific outcome you are measuring, but there are so many variables. In political science you need to learn to live with paradoxes, and this may be one.
Either way, I believe we should keep voting; they are paying attention.
More than fine!
There are primaries for Dems? I thought Biden was automatically the candidate as current POTUS.
There is a whole calendar
https://ballotpedia.org/Changes_to_the_2024_Democratic_presidential_primary_calendar
There is still a primary, but the incumbent has only lost his party’s nomination 4 times, only Democrat Franklin Pierce in 1856 was elected the other 3 ascended from Vice President. It has never happened since the modern primary system was created in the 1970s.
If any American ever has any questions about the Weimar Republic and why Germans didn’t stop Hitler when they still had a chance to do so, just point them to the run up to the 2024 presidential election. People who secretly want fascist leaders will always have an excuse, if one goes away, they already have another excuse waiting.
Everyone knows the Weimar Republic was funding a genocide before they elected Hitler. It’s in the history books, page 420. /s
and did that genocide get worse under Hitler, or ridiculously worse under Hitler? Page 69 will shock you.
Yes and these people become excessively angry with you when you point it out. Their goal isn’t really to find a solution, it is to express discontent. They are divorced enough from reality that when you mention that Trump would be worse, they tend to lash out at you instead.
The irony of literally anyone (eligible) not voting for Biden specifically because of his handling of the Gaza situation
I left my primary ballot blank. There was nobody on the ticket who wasn’t going to continue the genocide (with perhaps Marianna Williamson as an exception, but I’m not indulging her vanity campaign). Come November, I suspect I’ll be in the same spot. Two candidates who are endorsing genocide, with the caveat that one is waving an Israeli sports pennant while the other repeatedly insists he feels really bad about it.
I hate this timeline and I don’t want to live on this planet anymore.
Swing by Gaza. We’ll sell the Israelis the next round of ammo used to wipe you off the face of the Earth.
It’s a good thing that the only responsibility of a US president is deciding what to do about Israel.
If they were the only person able to veto something like a national abortion ban, or legislation criminalizing trans people, it would really mess with your calculus.
It’s a good thing that the only responsibility of a US president is deciding what to do about Israel.
Hey now, that’s not true. He’s also responsible for getting his Too Woke judicial nominees filibustered, appointing a bunch of corporate flacks to the Federal Reserve, doing photo ops at the US-Mexico border while wearing tacti-cool kit and frowning through a pair of binoculars, and fucking up the handling of the next environmental / weather disaster. And who can forget the most important job of any President? Fundraising!
If they were the only person able to veto something like a national abortion ban
Then we’re already fucked, because that would imply all this hemming and hawing about abortion being a losing issue for Republicans failed to pan out and now a bunch of sadistic right-wing fucks are crowding into the House and Senate.
Hey don’t blame them they just learned about Kony sorry Palestine and now it’s the make or break thing for them
deleted by creator
If 2024 was the last election ever, then your logic makes complete sense, and I get to liberals every election is the last election ever, despite us seeing Trump’s desperate and flawed attempts at seizing power. He didn’t get more intelligent in the last 4 years or learn from his mistakes.
Imagine a crazy, crazy world, where Trump wins in 2024 and there’s a 2028 election. I know this is hard for some moderate libs to fathom, but you should recognize it as a real possibility.
If it’s incredibly clear that Biden lost because he’s Genocide Joe, then the next Democratic candidate might be someone younger who is ready to end the genocide (which the U.S is perfectly capable of single-handedly doing).
I’ve met people online that absolutely refuse to even acknowledge this is a possible world. They think Genocide Joe is the absolute best, pro-Gaza leader the Democratic party could ever put forth, and that losing elections due to issues like supporting genocide could never change the rhetoric and actions of future candidates in the party.
It’s fucking mind-numbing how little thought people put into this. Like I’m happy to agree that in a world where Trump wins, the years 2024-2028 are going to be worse in about every conceivable way, but then as we get into 2028 and beyond, there are scenarios that play out better for leftists in that world (e.g we get an anti-genocide, socialist leftist instead of some moderate Republican who is a reincarnation of Biden except on some social issues). The fact that moderate libs REFUSE to acknowledge this possibility is fucking exhausting.
And I’m not saying that it’s guaranteed to be better 2028 and beyond, it’s absolutely not, nobody can make guarantees about the future, but there is undeniable potential value in having Biden lose this election when you look beyond the next 4 years.
Politicians cater to the people who vote. If Democrats lose this November and there is an election 2028 they are going to look at the people who voted in 2024 and 2026 and try to get those people’s votes. If progressives don’t vote in the general election this year Democrats won’t waste time on them and will instead focus on conservative voters. Not voting will drive the Democratic party further to the right.
Withholding our votes doesn’t lead to better election outcomes. Voting should be a simple mechanical choice to pick the lesser evil. If people want better candidates then they need to do the work between elections. Refusing to vote and trying to lower voter turnout sets us back. Losing in 2024 will mean America becomes a fascist dictatorship. There is no value in letting the Republicans win.
I didn’t say withhold your vote, go vote for Jill Stein.
It’s sad that you have to resort to a strawman to make a coherent argument against me. This is the only response to me that’s coherent, I just wish it was a coherent point against an actual position of mine, instead of a made-up position you fabricated.
If 8% of the vote goes to someone who has been openly anti-Israel and pro-Palestine, while crowds are chanting against genocide Joe, it’ll send a pretty clear signal to Democrats what they need to do.
Hoping you’ll apologize for the unnecessary strawman honestly, it’s needlessly exhausting to have to deal with all the inane shit everyone is throwing my way, only to then have to deal with a coherent comment put together against a point I didn’t even make.
I didn’t say withhold your vote, go vote for Jill Stein.
Jill Stein has no chance of winning. She is a spoiler for Joe Biden and so voting for her is, for the purpose of counting the difference in votes between Trump and Biden, the same as not voting. We have a two party, first-past-the-post, political system where Republicans benefit from low voter turnout. So Trump benefits from anyone not voting for Biden.
It’s sad that you have to resort to a strawman to make a coherent argument against me.
A strawman is an argument that argues against a different, usually weaker, position rather than the other argument’s actual position. However if the two positions are in fact equivalent, such as not voting and voting for third party spoiler candidates, then the argument is not a strawman.
If 8% of the vote goes to someone who has been openly anti-Israel and pro-Palestine, while crowds are chanting against genocide Joe, it’ll send a pretty clear signal to Democrats what they need to do.
100,000 people already voted uncommitted in the Michigan Democrat primary, with more in other Democrat primaries undoubtedly on the way. The point has been made and no new information will be gained from any third party voter turnout in November. There is no reason why the Democrats cannot change course on Palestine and Israel right now. This would be much more beneficial, to the Palestinians, than waiting through a Trump presidency to finally get help to them in 2028.
Hoping you’ll apologize for the unnecessary strawman honestly,
My argument is that letting Trump win is not only unacceptable, but is counterproductive to the progressive causes your argument claims will benefit from such a scenario. The Democrats will respond to low voter turnout from progressives by shifting to the right to capture more conservative voters. This is a refutation of you argument’s central point.
it’s needlessly exhausting to have to deal with all the inane shit everyone is throwing my way
There were nothing but solid replies to your comment. I implore you to reconsider.
The information gained would be we’re refusing to vote for genocide supporters. Some people, like yourself will vote for someone in support of genocide as long as they’re on the ticket as a Democrat.
If everyone behaves that way, the democratic party doesn’t have to change. They can keep pushing moderate fiscal conservatives like Biden, over and over again, and Democrats will permanently retain power.
If they lose the general election by less than the third party vote, they know there are voters to the left that are voting that they could focus on capturing instead of catering to cultish fascists. Your entire original point was predicated on the idea that the Democrats would have to move right, but in a world where:
-
Republican: 46%
-
Democrat: 45%
-
Green: 8%
-
Other: 1%
There’s a very clear strategy for future Democrats to move left to win the election. It’s either purposeful ignorance or genuine stupidity to say the above is EXACTLY THE SAME as:
-
Republican: 55%
-
Democrat: 45%
This is why the idea of a “spoiler vote” is insanely dumb, especially when you’re advocating for voting for an actual genocide supporter.
The information gained would be we’re refusing to vote for genocide supporters.
The Uncommitted Movement is effectively doing this in the primaries, hopefully without the downside of Biden losing in November. Trump winning would still be catastrophic for the Palestinians, even if there is an election 2028. Trump will green light Israel’s genocide and millions of people will be killed or displaced in that region of the world alone. The Republican party will kill any hope of a Palestinian state happening, as they will undoubtedly support the settler movement. Biden has at least put sanctions on at least 30 Israeli settlers. There is at least of chance of Democrats working to stop the settlers and supporting a Palestinian state.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/04/israel-settler-violence-sanctions
If everyone behaves that way, the democratic party doesn’t have to change. They can keep pushing moderate fiscal conservatives like Biden, over and over again, and Democrats will permanently retain power.
MAGA supporters are going to keep voting for Trump or an equivalent as long as that is an option. They are driving the Republican Party further right, by consistently voting that way. We could do the same with the Democratic Party to drive it to the left. We need to collectively do the work to support potential progressive candidates for future elections, but Biden is the most progressive option we have right now for this election who has any chance to win.
If they lose the general election by less than the third party vote, they know there are voters to the left that are voting that they could focus on capturing instead of catering to cultish fascists.
Exit polling data can break down the ideological differences between Democratic voters. The Democrats will be able to figure out what kind of voters voted for them, without needing progressives to vote third party.
There’s a very clear strategy for future Democrats to move left to win the election. It’s either purposeful ignorance or genuine stupidity to say the above is EXACTLY THE SAME as:
I’m saying it’s the same as:
Republican: 50%
Democrat: 48.91%
Other: 1.09%
Where progressives simply do not vote. Since in both cases Republicans win the presidency. The Democrats are only going to cater to people who vote for them in general elections. edit: capitalization
exit polling data can break down ideological differences
You have an extremely naive view of the world, thinking that exit polling signals the same thing that voting far left does. Constituents aren’t the only interest group politicians listen to, we actually have hard data that for the purposes of at least law making they entirely ignore us, and we have very little influence even beyond that.
The miniscule amount of influence we do have is the ability to remove one party from power. Exit polls come absolutely no where near this in terms of influence. When other interest groups want to continue the Palestinian genocide, and you have exit polls signaling that Democrats are against this (as exit polls have suggested for the last 50 years) then Democrats happily ignore this, as they have been.
We’re in a unique situation where the genocide is ramping up, and for some reason the American left has latched onto this issue (rightfully so, but still surprising). If we actually funnel this clearly into a signal that we will essentially sacrifice our wellbeing (e.g put Trump in power) just to draw the line that genocide support is unacceptable, we might actually see an anti-genocide Democrat for once.
Exit polls are entirely different. They’re fine in a world where there is no institutionalized interest in perpetuating some harm, and the Democratic party is split on some issue, they can look to constituent preferences. But as Joe Biden said best, if Israel did not exist in the middle east, the U.S would have to invent an Israel to protect American interests abroad. Preferences will be ignored without consequences for those in power, and if you think otherwise, again, you’re being naive.
-
there were nothing but solid replies to your comments
A comment I received with 9 upvotes: “You may actually have brain damage”.
Most of the other comments were honestly less coherent than this, but this is concise enough and not even relevant to the conversation, so I am really excited to hear how this is a “solid reply” in your book.
A comment I received with 9 upvotes: “You may actually have brain damage”.
In this thread? I’m searching on the words in the quote and I’m not seeing it. Maybe a Mod removed it. I’m not referring to any comment that resorts to ad hominem attacks.
I am a leftist and the democratic party is no friend of mine. That said:
-
I have lost a portion of my bodily autonomy due to republican policies. People I know have avoided getting reproductive care due to draconian republican laws in my state, and lack of control of medical records. Electing a republican will further erode rights for 50% of the nation. Yes, I am talking about women’s reproductive health.
-
Republicans are erroding the safety and rights of LGBTQ+ people, in my state and elsewhere. I cannot abide a future where they are able to do this federally.
-
Republicans are directly attacking our electoral processes and our partisan supreme court refuses to engage in a timely matter. A bush/gore sort of election issue will send our nation into chaos, or direct civil war. You wish us to imagine a future in which trump wins and there is a 2028 election. I can’t imagine a future where a republican government respects democracy that would allow for a possibility for a democratic (let alone an actual left party) candidate to win. The republican party is no longer a neolib party, they are a party of fascists up for sale to the highest bidder.
-
Trump will not just merely support Israel’s genocide. The middle east becomes more and more volatile each day. Remember: Trump had an Iranian general assassinated. I think it’s quite likely we will be dragged into a horrible, hellish war. No heroes, no winners, just unimaginable carnage and human suffering.
-
If anyone attempts to engage me with accelerationist rhetoric, know that I will ignore you. I refuse to engage with anyone who believes that an increase in violence is somehow beneficial. You have no idea what you’re asking for, and a glorious leftist revolution is not a possible outcome here.
-
If Trump wins in 2024 there won’t be a 2028 election, or at least a not a real one.
In your scenario there would be no Gaza to save in 2028.
False premise.
You’re speaking in certainties when you cannot. The genocide has been perpetuated, on and off, for 75 years. This is the most killing we’ve seen in the region in a short span of time, but we have seen figures close to this in the past 75 years.
Of course there’s a world where Trump is elected, and successfully aids Israel in the extermination of the Palestinians. But you have to admit that that world isn’t a certainty, even if Trump is elected.
There’s also a world where Biden is reelected, his campaign keeps greenlighting the genocide with periodic rhetorical criticism, and then some other fascist Republican or moderate fiscal conservative Democrat comes in in 2028 and finishes the job (the Democrats now emboldened to further ignore the genocide because it costs them nothing).
It’s easier online to speak in certainty about the future, I understand that, but please if you’re going to bother engaging please don’t do it in bad-faith and actually admit where your knowledge ends. You’re not clairvoyant.
Of course there’s a world where Trump is elected, and successfully aids Israel in the extermination of the Palestinians. But you have to admit that that world isn’t a certainty, even if Trump is elected.
You just need to read the headline to this post, not even the article, to see where this argument is a non starter.
I don’t believe Trump’s campaign promises are unwavering truisms that come to fruition 100% of the time. I’m glad you have so much faith in the promises he makes though, so much so that you’d literally call them a certainty and disregard any other possible reality just simply on the basis that Trump said it.
I’ve met a good number of Trump supporters that don’t even have this kind of faith, only his most devout followers take his promises as premonitions of the future.
Don’t you think Egypt will let in refugees when Trump greenlights a Supergenocide?
removed by mod
Removed, rule 3:
“Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (perjorative, perjorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (perjorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect!”
Look up Project 2025. There will not be a 2028 election if Trump wins 2024. One Day Dictator Donnie won’t stop at one day.
He already tried to seize the capital through force. He has failed, he was the president for 4 fucking years and couldn’t figure out how to dismantle the government. He’s incredibly incompetent, I don’t know why every liberal in the world is clutching their pearls like he’s some kind of mastermind who grew and learned how to overthrow the country.
Trump is a figurehead. The man himself is nothing. If her gets elected, the smart people behind him who actually DO learn from past mistakes will have four years to reshape the government, and last time, things moved FAST.
Not voting does not send the message you think it does. It sends the message that you’re fine with the status quo and content to sit home and let things play out. “Protest” voting in the final election within a 2 party system is the same as not voting. It’s winner take all, and nothing else matters to these people.
I’ve responded to this exact sentiment in at least 4 comments and it’s getting exhausting. Either find my response to this or don’t engage, I don’t really give a fuck. It can’t possibly be my responsibility to educate every genocide-agnostic moderate-lib on the material reality of elections.
Ibid
It’s not like he’s the one coming up with the plan. Project 2025 was written by much more cunning schemers. There are people who saw him fail to take the capital by force, and now seek to enable his success next time.
Lol he already got the supreme court running interference for his attempted coup. Do you think the country is safe?
Project 2025. Downvote me. Shit on my very existence. But read what is planned.
“I don’t want to live on this planet anymore…” oh please, just stop. How horrible is your life? You sound like a whiny liberal. People are dying all over the world, being murdered for religious beliefs, sexual preference, politics…etc…and you don’t want to live because “that big bad republican might become President…” Please…
You sound like a whiny liberal.
New here?
Ha I was debating (?) some gradbears with the argument that not voting against Donnie would result in more suffering but their replies can be summed up as “not my problem, I’d feel worse if I did”
But sure, yeah… go ahead and just not vote. Letting Trump in will be so much better for the Palestinians.
A week ago, the difference between the two would have been that Trump would enable Israel in every way, while Biden would enable Israel in every way, but staffers would leak stories about how much Biden didn’t like Netanyahu from time to time. Now, Biden has started sending aid to Gaza while Harris is calling for a ceasefire, and this is entirely because 100K voters in Michigan voted uncommitted. When done properly, threatening to withhold your vote can be an effective way to make your voice heard.
I think you make a great point, but I would add a caveat. There IS a difference between Biden and trump. One will listen to protesters, and the other won’t. You can pressure Biden and he will change his position because he seems to care what voters think, and Trump doesn’t.
Yeah, I agree with that. And, to be clear, I think there have always been tons of differences between Biden and Trump on almost every issue besides Israel/Gaza. I was just saying that, on this single issue, the difference between Biden and Trump would have been mostly rhetoric, not policy, up until the Michigan primary voters convinced Biden to change. I definitely didn’t mean to imply they were generally the same.
Now, Biden has started sending aid to Gaza
But he hasn’t stopped sending weapons to Israel
Yeah, I’m not saying there’s been enough change, just that there has been some change, and it was brought on by people threatening to withhold their vote.
it was brought on by people threatening to withhold their vote.
Its definitely been a wake-up call to the party. Watching Biden shed 20% of Democratic voter turnout in a fucking primary is something. Obama and Clinton never had these kinds of problems in '12 and '96. And guys that did - Carter getting burned by Ted Kennedy in '80 and Bush to Buchanan in '92 - should have been a warning to the party as a whole.
Yeah, I’ll be honest, I’m very worried about this election. I’m still unhappy with Biden’s approach to Israel, but at least now they can credibly argue that voting for him would be harm reduction for Palestinians. Maybe that will be enough to drive turnout.
at least now they can credibly argue that voting for him would be harm reduction
Right until the polls close in November, at which point its back to business as usual.
Well…yeah, probably.
this is entirely because 100K voters in Michigan voted uncommitted
Objection. Assumes facts not in evidence.
To be clear, I have no problem with people in Michigan voting uncommitted, I just don’t think you can draw that line.
Biden’s entire approach to Isreal changed almost on a dime after that primary. He started aid drops to Gaza, Kamala Harris suddenly started using the word, “ceasefire,” he brought Netanyahu’s chief opponent to discuss the humanitarian crisis in Gaza…Biden obviously didn’t come out and say, “I’m changing my approach to Isreal because I’m afraid of losing Michigan,” but it’s pretty clear why this shift is occurring.
It’s certainly possible. My opinion has long been that politicians are not really all that responsive to public opinion.
When your representatives are Republicans, that’s pretty much true. My blue representatives actually seem to care and I have first-hand experience with this.
I’m afraid that there was a near instantaneous shift in his rhetoric after Michigan.
The ‘uncommitted’ voters will think that they changed Biden’s mind, but most likely he was going to start sending aiding to Gaza anyway. He doesn’t like Netanyahu and probably genuinely does want peace.
At the same time the ‘uncommitted’ stunt has turned voters against Biden. Remember the average voter is functioning at grade 8 or grade 6 level. Educated voters will see this as the political maneuvers that it is, the average ‘grade 6’ mental age voter will think ‘Biden sucks’, and not vote.
Letting Trump in
Winner-take-all electoral college means you never really had a voice in the matter.
You should have moved to a Blue State before 2020, so your physical presence could be used to tip how many electoral votes that state produced, if you really cared about stopping Trump in 2024. That’s the only consequential method of putting a (very tiny) finger on the scale of a Presidential contest.
Wouldn’t it make more sense to move to a swing state and try to tip it blue?
Edit: tip it blue
From a population perspective, it wouldn’t matter. Your best bet would be to find a bright blue state that is on the cusp of getting a new house seat. That would boost up the EC total for the state and guarantee consistent adds to Team Blue. Moving to a purple state and hoping you are THE swing voter mostly just means you make the state more valuable to invest in by the various campaigns. You’re still going to be functionally feeding Red Team during red election waves (which blue needs votes the most) when your view is most likely to be in the minority.
Still uncommitted?
Given that Trump is running in the Republican primary, I’m unsure how this would effect anyone voting uncommitted in a Democratic primary?
Well, you’re implying that you might vote for someone other than Biden in the general, and the impact of that is that Trump will become president and the impact of that is Israel will have a free pass from US leadership to completely annihilate Gaza and kill with impunity. So, in terms of actually achieving the goal of stopping the killing of Palestinians, voting uncommitted is not going to work. Additionally, by promoting voting uncommitted and making it a purity test, some people will be influenced by that and ACTUALLY not vote for Biden and this will be the same thing as voting for Trump in that the result of Trump winning will be the same.
This would be a much more productive conversation if you didn’t just invent things I didn’t say to argue with. I’ve implied no such thing.
I am explicitly using the Democratic primary as a method to express my displeasure with Biden, which you may recognize as the sole reason primaries exist. I’m increasingly confused by how many people seem to not understand that.
Will voting uncommitted or for the crazy crystal healing lady lead to the Democrats having a component and popular general election candidate come November? No, sadly, but that’s a criticism of the state of our decayed democracy not giving voters meaningful avenues to enact change in society, not a criticism of the electoral strategies that have to exist within said decayed democracy.
Will voting uncommitted or for the crazy crystal healing lady lead to Biden making meaningful changes in his stances regarding Palestine? Given his change in messaging from the guy that bypassed Congress to sell Israel munitions two months ago to someone that now doing the bare minimum of at least air dropping (nowhere near sufficient) food supplies to Gaza, the answer to that is seemingly a slight yes. Which has the benefit of aligning the presumptive Democratic Presidential nominee with the majority of voters, making him a stronger general candidate.
You know. The whole point of a primary. So, you’re welcome?
I’m increasingly confused by how many people seem to not understand that.
Me too, and I’m Canadian and don’t know much about US politics. Are there sources out there (e.g., US news, social media campaigns, messaging from actual Democrats) spreading the idea that an uncommitted vote in the primary means voting for trump in the election?
Gotta lie keep the support for israel high.
Remember Trump isn’t on the democratic ballot. You can’t vote against him until November. Your only choice in the primaries is to vote for Biden or vote that you are here for the other progressive and democratic choices down ballot but Biden has to earn that commitment by doing something against his own personal desire to be a Zionist and instead help starving children get food.
Uncommitted doesn’t mean I’m never going to vote for Biden. It just means he has to earn it through action.
Sure, but how many people are casting uncommitted or seeing how unpopular Biden is and are going to stay home in November because of it? My guess is not zero.
I get the protest and the timing, but it’s unclear if it’s really inoffensive in the general.
You don’t get the protest then!
If Biden fears this uncommitted vote movement then he will have to do something to stop it in its tracks.
Using his power to stop the weapons and money transfers to Israel and using the words Ceasefire Now would be a start. If he starts doing concrete actions to stop ten year old children wasting away and dying of starvation then the uncommitted vote movement would be over.
Then it sounds like Biden needs to take a firm anti-genocide stance to get those voters to actually vote, no? Do you think the number of Biden voters would decrease if Biden stopped the genocide?
I think the number of voters in general will decrease if Trump wins, considering he wants to get rid of elections entirely.
Do you disagree with the statement that Biden taking an anti-genocide stance, rather than his current pro-genocide with wrist slaps stance, would increase voter turnout?
An honest answer: It would likely increase the progressive voter turnout, but I am unsure about the net effect. I would certainly hope it increases total overall turnout, but unfortunately a large chunk of the voting populace–including a lot of reliable Democrat voters–are still very much pro-Israel.
That said, I would also like to confirm: Assume for the moment that Biden and Trump wins the nomination, and there is no change in the status quo between now and November (this is unlikely, given Biden’s recent shifts in policy signaling a possible change in trend, but I want to check against the worst case scenario). Would you still vote for Biden, or would you stay home? Would you staying home potentially affect the outcome (I.e. are you in a solid red/blue state like Alabama or California, or are you in a swing state like Michigan or Georgia)? What would need to change for you to vote for Biden in November?
I don’t know what you intended to post, but my phone wants to open it in WhatsApp
Then your phone is configured to open webp links as WhatsApp links, which is not the correct extension association.
It’s an animated image.
Oh I don’t doubt that the “uncommited” oppose Trump, too. The problem is the Genocide Joe rhetoric and other similar bullshit. You push that narrative and it may very well have lingering effects in Trump’s favor during the general election. Maybe in other elections it didnt matter quite as much, but this is Trump were talking about. Why do you and others like you not get that? Hello, knock, knock. Trump is fully embracing the Hitler playbook and aiming to be president of the Most Powerful Nation on Earth. And you want to bitch about Biden? At this moment…? SMH, it is your sort of fractious indiscipline and short-sightedness that allows fascism to gain power, laughing all the way at your stupidity and inability to mount a coherent defence of democracy. You think you have nothing to lose, but you do. Things can get much, much worse.
Exactly, some people will take this uncommitted thing all the way to the general election. Biden only won by a few hundred thousand votes in swing states. If you weaken enthusiasm in folks to come out for him, all it takes is a few hundred thousand to stay home and Trump will win. Not voting for Biden will elect Trump. You will be helping Trump. You will be electing Trump. And encouraging others to do the same just for fun in the primary is a dangerous game of chicken. You don’t play with loaded guns. Don’t play with the last election the United States may ever have.
Well, you’re implying that you might vote for someone other than Biden in the general, and the impact of that is that Trump will become president and the impact of that is Israel will have a free pass from US leadership to completely annihilate Gaza and kill with impunity. So, in terms of actually achieving the goal of stopping the killing of Palestinians, voting uncommitted is not going to work.
Additionally, and I think this is IMPORTANT, by promoting voting uncommitted and making it a purity test, some people will be influenced by that and ACTUALLY not vote for Biden and this will be the same thing as voting for Trump in that the result of Trump winning will be the same.
Yep. Voted no preference today and the most progressive candidates down ballot. My conscience is clear.
You’re like those dudes who post anonymously things like “I’m totally 100% straight but occasionally I like sucking a dick”
That didn’t factor into my vote because I’m not homophobic.
Perhaps it’s because you’re too dumb to understand the concept of an analogy.
That analogy makes no logical sense, and I’d like to see you try to explain it without looking dumb yourself. Put up or shut up smart guy.
You delude yourself.
Explanation of analogy?
Yes lol. If you can’t run a candidate that isn’t whole heartedly in on genocide, then you shouldn’t expect votes from people who don’t like said genocide. The dems clearly don’t actually give a fuck about democracy, why not actually throw that antipopulism behind a candidate who actually appeals to people. “Still uncommited” haha GTFO. Yell at the people actually choosing the candidate, not the people who don’t want to vote for the meat puppet. I mean…Jesus fucking Christ.
Your purity test here makes you equivalent to a Trump supporter in that your actions of not supporting Biden will result in Trump winning the election.
As is clear from this article, Trump will “finish the job” in Gaza. You think it’s bad now? Wait until Israel is encouraged to completely seize Gaza and kill with even more impunity by Trump. So, your purity test for Biden will actually result in a worse outcome than you’re trying to achieve. You’re actually going to be causing a worse situation to unfold — one that is the opposite of what you want. You may say it’s justified because you needed to stand by your morals, but I don’t think that will matter to the Palestinians dying because you chose not to support Biden and by doing so, elected Trump.
I beg you to reconsider your position. Biden won by only a few hundred thousand votes in swing states. Your not supporting Biden and encouraging others not to as well could depress turn out and result in a very unfortunate situation. This may be the last election we ever have in America.
Purity test😂
You’d be better off yelling at the people who are pushing the worst possible candidate against Trump. Let’s pretend you convince me to vote, congrats you’ve convinced 1 person in the interwebs. Write to your reps…ramp up the pressure and forget about me. Biden’s losing with or without my vote, it’s a good bet. When that happens you can blame people that didn’t want to vote , or you can blame the party that’s shooting itself in the dick…over…and over again. I know who will get blamed, and I don’t give a fuck.
A lot of uncommitted voters are going to vote for Biden out of harm reduction. They might vote against AIPAC-endorsed candidates if they only have Democrats in their ballots. I know I would, but if there is a Republican, I’d have to vote for an AIPAC-endorsed democrat.
In the primary? Absolutely. It’s the only way I can demand more from Biden as a representative. These are voters who went out of their way to get up and vote for the democratic primary, just not for Biden. This is a huge way to put pressure on Biden and the DNC. These are committed voters protesting within the democratic party. This is the only way democratic voters can put pressure on Biden to change course.
The National is very different, we don’t have a choice but to vote for Biden or domestic fascism. I will of course vote for Biden and urge others to as well during the National election. Not a third party or Trump in the National, Biden is the only real option.
This is the reality of our shitty FPTP democracy.
Color me surprised that the facist sympathizes with other fascists committing a genocide.
deleted by creator
You’re wrong about the border. One of his main shticks is immigrates invading the country over the southern border. If they passed the border bill, and Biden shut down the border, he loses a huge talking point with his base and a huge fear of theirs that he can prey on.
He didn’t block it because Democrats were for it, he blocked it because he doesn’t actually care about protecting his base from any invasion, he cares only about himself.
You’ll see that he’ll keep talking about the border.
He didn’t block it because Democrats were for it, he blocked it because he doesn’t actually care about protecting his base from any invasion, he cares only about himself.
That’s a lot of words to say that trump tanked the border deal because the Democrats were ok with it.
No, it’s saying he tanked it because he wants to border to be open because he believe it helps him win.
Hell, the Democrats aren’t even “for it” it was just compromise…or really I think it was a political move to take that away from trump and get what they think is important (support for Ukraine).
Again, just watch, he’ll hammer on the border over and over again during the general election. At that point will you admit I’m right?
At that point will you admit I’m right?
Nix this part and you’re good, chief.
I tend to respond to obnoxiousness in kind. It’s certainly a weakness of mine.
I do the same, but I have been trying to build the habit of not doing it.
deleted by creator
No, I’m not saying that. Feel free to read my clarification again.
(Edit) Sorry thought this was in the same chain. No, I’m not saying that. I’m saying he wants the border open because he thinks it helps him win. he isn’t vocally against border security now, he’ll continue to hammer away at it because its red meat for his base. He’s against it getting closed because then he can’t hammer away at it.
deleted by creator
Except he’s going to continue to harp on border security. He isn’t taking the position because he just does the opposite of the Dems, he blocked it because it takes away a talking point. Now he can and will continue to talk about it. He didn’t even change his position.
He didn’t block it because Democrats were for it, he blocked it because he doesn’t actually care about protecting his base from any invasion, he cares only about himself.
It’s worse than that. Far right extremist politicians want the country to suffer. The worse it is, the better they are doing. So he’s not only not caring about people suffering but he wants them to suffer!
lmao the Dems have never NOT supported the genocide. Republicans just supported it more because Jesus and war. And racism.
deleted by creator
Shipping weapons used in genocide is supporting genocide and you know it.
EDIT: I can’t read apparently.
I agree, I said never not supported, which I realize is a bit confusing. Maybe the not should be all caps
Whoops. I misread that. My bad.
I’ve asked it before, but I wonder how Hitler would react to Israel. Probably be beaming with pride, like a master does when their apprentice surpasses them. I imagine when Netanyahu finally shuffles his way off this mortal coil, and his soul goes wherever Hitler’s is, Adolf will probably shake his hand.
Unless I’m getting wooshed on sarcasm… you realize Israel is full of the descendants of the Jewish people Hitler displaced, right?
In the magical world of Lemmy, it’s perfectly ok to compare Israel to Nazis. This place is like a bad trip sometimes.
Trump loving other countries doing “strong man” types of atrocities? Who would have thought!
Trump also repeatedly claimed that if he were president, there would be no war between Israel and Gaza. “It would have never happened if I was president,” he said of Hamas’ Oct. 7 attack against Israel, in which more than 1,100 Israeli and foreign nationals were killed. “They wouldn’t have done it to me, I guarantee you that. They did this because they have no respect for Biden and frankly they got soft,” he added.
uh huh
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel_in_2017 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel_in_2018
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_airborne_arson_attacks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel_in_2019 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel_in_2020
They would never have done it if he was president. They only attacked because of biden.
Oh, good.
So the only reason to not vote for Biden is also a reason to not vote for trump. At least Biden seems to be at least signaling for cease fires.
It’s not much, but at least Biden is malleable on this. He can be persuaded to make the attempt to try to slow the Israelis down, maybe even stop arms shipments to Israel altogether (or at least add conditions). If Trump comes in, he’d probably go in the complete opposite direction out of spite for liberals and would try to help the Israeli genocide even harder. It’s not a great choice, but the choice of least harm in this case is still Biden.
Israel is not the only problem in that area, mind you. Just wanting them to stop what they’re currently doing fixes nothing in the large picture.
Hamas deciding to surrender and Palestine somehow waking up seems like the best option, but I don’t see how that could happen. And Israel’s actions are not helping that of course.
deleted by creator
“Captain! Captain they’re shooting at us!”
Yeah, plenty of likely Brownshirts around me, and they may get the drop, but I’m not harmless.
Thankfully we’ve had four more years to get more people armed. A lot of us are no longer unable to defend ourselves and our communities.
But also guns bad
leftistsliberals
I think you mean liberals
Fair, I’ll edit
If trump was president right now, democrats would be at least more harshly condemning his actions in Gaza because it wouldn’t be politically expedient for them to downplay their complicity in genocide to maintain their current level of comfort and power. Gotta keep that machine running no matter what, I guess.
deleted by creator
Oh man and Trump is only more pissed now since feeling like he didn’t get to be the biggest man, and get his easy win election.
If that wasn’t true before it definitely feels that way now.
I was thinking more so if Trump won the election rather than succeeded the insurrection, but I’ll give you that. Fascists are gonna fascist. I just don’t see any way to stop creeping fascism so long as people are downplaying atrocities for the sake of damage reduction. We’re going to end up with fascism regardless since we’re doing nothing to prevent it.
I’m not a Democrat, but I would be at war. If having a right to vote is the hill I die on so be it.
removed by mod
removed by mod
He sure needs to “commit suicide” via 3 shots into the back of the head.
That might spark a civil war as his followers lash out, at the very least a wave of terrorism for the death of their messiah
Pretty sure they’ll cower behind their AR15s and talk loudly, and do nothing.
Me thinks it would be the fastest civil war in history.
My estimation of how this might go: Goods stop arriving in stores, diabetics can’t get insulin, critical infrastructure gets targeted first. Good luck maintaining internet connectivity. The masses would do more damage to themselves than either political opposition.
Would be fun to shrug it off like that but they are infested in the military, courts, police, and the Republican party
You can look at the history of white America getting away with murders of coloured folk to see why it is a scary prospect
Oh, I’m by no means shrugging it off. Thousands would die. I’m simply saying, it would end quickly and stupidly. We are too interdependent on our institutions to have an effective civil war.
It would also take a seperate opposing body to attack another. How would republican actors know who is ideologically to the left of them?
Unless they employ some type of guerilla warfare but, I don’t think there are enough people committed to trump to get that done effectively.
Oh brother…
That might spark a civil war
Considering how Trump loves alienating the military it will probably be a very short one.
We’re near the cusp anyway, though not on the precipice. The worst thing though is knowing the Maga cult is likely to try and rise up if anything happens to Trump they don’t like, including not winning the Presidency. This is depressing because on the other hand I do NOT foresee the Left doing the same.
They should.
They won’t though.
Republicans don’t view him as a “messiah.” They view him as the opposite of Biden.
Right, that’s why you right wing lunatics referred to him as “God Emperor of the United States”
Meh, there’s some idiots out there that take it too far…just like how some of ya’ll truly believe Biden is a good President…
Ah yes, I remember it well, the 2016 election season was just starting up, and Trump said “vote for me, I’m the opposite of the previous vice president.”
What a moving speech it was.
Only on Liberal Lemmy and Liberal Reddit can you threaten to kill a Republican politician, and everyone just laughs it off…
We don’t rejoice in the mass-murder of innocents like your ilk does, right-winger - we prefer the violence to happen to those who deserve it.
Trump is not a Republican politician. It seems to me that most Republican politicians are neither.
Given his ties to Russia, I believe a fall from a hospital window would be more realistic.
And people think Democrats will
vote onsupport Trump because Biden won’t denounce Israel…It’s at least in part Russian propaganda. They don’t want people to vote for Trump, they do want democratic voters to not vote at all, which will help Trump get elected.
Look at the people pushing the ‘genocide Joe’ thing. Invariably they’re anti-NATO and make excuses for Iran, Syria and Russia. Not that they’re doing it deliberately, but plenty seem to have bought the propaganda and are acting like useful idiots by spreading it.
Genocide Joe needs to be held accountable for sending weapons to a country engaged in genocide. That’s not propaganda, that’s international law.
And just for the sake of science: do you have an opinion on NATO?
It’s fine I guess, I’m not a Russian or Chinese shill lmao. I guess I was technically a social democrat, then I thought humanity would be okay in small tribal communes, but now I think humanity should go extinct in order to save the remaining animals we haven’t already driven to extinction. For sciences sake.
So you do realize that’s worse than Hitler right? Your “noble cause” requires humanity to be exterminated, Hitler just wanted a “perfect race” of humans. Even if it’s not by your hand or directed by you, you want the elimination of the entire human species.
There are some days where I’m in that camp too lol
Yeah I don’t think it should be an extermination, I know there are others like me called the voluntary extinction movement or something. I think intelligent people can see the writing on the wall that we’ve passed an important climate tipping point in 2023, I’m lucky I didn’t already have kids, but I’m getting a vasectomy.
Humanity has driven 70% of all species to extinction in the 250,000 years we’ve been around. 150 species a day. How many megafauna did we permanently erase before we even developed the written word? I think if we burn ourselves out before we spread to other planets or solar systems, said places are lucky.
That’s the easy way out. Please stick around and help the rest of us try to steer humanity in the right direction. Help the moral arc of the universe bend a little faster. It’s hard work, and most of us won’t see much of a return. But long-term, let’s hope that humanity can.
To clarify: I’m a biologist. The perspective you’ve taken is basically “Noble Savage” but for animals. Animals are pushed to extinction all the time. Yes, we’re incredibly good at it, and we’re good at coming up with highfalutin reasons for killing things, but look at chimps, ants, dolphins…nature is brutal. It sucks to be most animals. Say a habitat changes, and a species “needs” to move into an adjacent similar habitat that’s already occupied by one or more species exploiting those resources? Extinction of something is pretty likely. That’s all very much an oversimplification, of course, but this is a lemmy comment.
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0111310 https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/when-it-comes-waging-war-ants-humans-have-lot-common-180972169/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gombe_Chimpanzee_War
The hope I have is our intelligence. The fact that you recognize this existential threat is more than a badger is capable of.
Do you have an opinion on anything I said or just insinuations about my agenda?
Its at least in part Russian propaganda. They don’t want people to vote for Trump, they do want democratic voters to not vote at all
you’re making this up
none of your links support a claim that russia is using the conflict in israel to favor one candidate or another.
Imagine thinking Russia has undue influence on the US but that the US doesn’t do this to every country in the world, including Russia. Remind me how Yeltzin got elected?
What many of us imagine is that it’s bad when either nation does this.
Yes, it is hypocritical for most US politicians to criticize Russia’s interference in US elections, but it’s not incorrect.
It certainly isn’t wrongthink for those of us who have little influence on what alphabet agencies do to complain about it happening just because it’s happening elsewhere, too.
deleted by creator
That’s a non sequitur at best.
removed by mod
Imagine being upset about it enough to follow me around? Cringe dude
Imagine being you and taking memes seriously? Cringe dude
no one is threatening to vote for Trump because of biden’s genocidal proclivities. since nobody’s doing that, none of them can be Russian agents. you made this up.
Since reading is hard:
It’s at least in part Russian propaganda. They don’t want people to vote for Trump, they do want democratic voters to not vote at all, which will help Trump get elected.
Way to ignore the entire point of the person you responded to.
Way to ignore the entire point of the person you responded to.
i’m not ignoring it. i’m challenging it.
Sorry, I wasn’t aware that you were “challenging it” by ignoring the actual point and making up something else to respond to. My mistake, I’ll have to learn alternative definitions for words.
It’s at least in part Russian propaganda.
But you’ll use that as the excuse every time someone says they won’t be voting for Biden right?
The problem you run into with this excuse is regardless of where the ideas are coming from or who is amplifying them you and many others are clearly concerned about the upcoming election. Biden won the 2020 general election so that means you’re worried there are people who voted for Biden in the 2020 general election and won’t vote for him in 2024. If they’re leftists or progressives that means staying home, voting 3rd party or writing in.
So here’s a crazy idea: find a compromise. Leftists and progressives have raised multiple reasons they are frustrated or even angry at Biden. Why not yield to some of those objections? Frankly, the fact that discussions about giving progressive and leftist voters what they want in order to gain votes get so heavily down voted feels like the real PsyOP. Especially when the people downvoting simultaneously talk about the wonders of democracy and compromise. Here’s just a few ideas Biden could do today:
- Biden has been providing Israel weapons without congressional approval. That means he could stop. Today. Do that.
- Biden blocked the rail strike by forcing a contract unions had voted against down their throat. That contract expires at the end of this year meaning they could strike again in 2025. Biden could promise to veto any attempts to block a rail strike in his next term.
- Biden forced federal workers back to the office. He could reverse that.
- Biden could publicly shame Powell and Yellen for attacking American worker wages.
It’s hard to take people seriously when they talk about how important democracy is but sneer at the very idea of sacrificing any policy positions in order to court voters sitting to the left of Biden.
thank you
Without taking a position on what you’re saying, do you think it’s at all possible that making those choices could lose more voters than they’d gain? I honestly don’t know, but changing a position on any issue runs the risk of losing votes as well.
do you think it’s at all possible that making those choices could lose more voters than they’d gain?
Yes. You take a risk either way.
What do you know about politics dude because it seems like nothing.
Do you want to mock my understanding of politics or do you want my vote? You can’t have both.
Anytime someone goes to name calling I assume they are a bad actor. We can have a serious discussion on the matter without devolving into name calling so I just assume they are trying to sew discord more than anything else.
deleted by creator
They will. By not voting for either.
I don’t believe that is something that anyone has ever said
deleted by creator
Ohh, just how will our little “But Biden saporz Genocide”-crybabies now explain away their “both side is bad” bullshit?
Man, I was worried for a second he would take the opposite stance.
I’m really torn on this one. On the one hand, Republicans ALWAYS take the exact opposite stance of Democrats so they can set up the argument as “Democrats bad” but on the other hand Trump is such a massive pile of shit that he would totally be for “bombing dark skinned people” just because.
deleted by creator
