Is this populism? Is this Trumpism? Instead of running the province well and communicating that to the electorate, you make up the idea of a referendum on an asinine idea and then market it as “listening to the people.” Irresponsible and effortless
People aren’t too bright 'round these parts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Road_to_Unfreedom has an interesting take on the wave of separatist movements. It traces it to a reactionary “politics of eternity”, which is being supported and advanced by authoritarian regimes to undermine the established order based on trade democratic deliberation. See, e.g., https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2016_Brexit_referendum
Now that X and Meta have become dedicated propaganda platforms, and I don’t know that it’s even possible for the government or researchers to get the needed access to determine if there are bad actors manipulating the public in this way now.
From Snyders view, one of the aims of this global effort is to convince people that coordination via democratic deliberation doesn’t work. Proposing ridiculous, highly polarizing referendums and tricking as many people as possible into voting for the most absurd option is a great way to convince everyone that democratic process are stupid, since that is the most degenerate form of democratic activity.
That’s pretty chilling to hear. But great info, thanks for sharing!
Whatever happens, it should require a supermajority to leave. Say 50.1% of the population vote to leave so it’s on, then some people change their minds or some people die while others turn 18, then it’s 49.9% who want independence so it’s off. I don’t know if 55% is enough, or 60%, or 67%. But, it should be enough that whatever decision is made, it’s not going to immediately become unpopular.
As the indigenous peoples of the prairies have already pointed out, by treaty, the provinces don’t own the lands they’re governing. The people can leave.
They don’t get to take anything with them.
Say 50.1% of the population vote to leave so it’s on, then some people change their minds or some people die while others turn 18, then it’s 49.9% who want independence so it’s off.
Thats exactly how it went with Brexit, except that they still went through with it.
Yeah, and that’s why it should be a cautionary tale for all other hugely important referendums.
That’s like the entire point of the Clarity Act. You need to have the feds agree on the question and threshold for a leave vote to be valid and binding.
Alberta 2025 = Crimea 2013
I’d be extremely skeptical of people saying they wouldn’t leave.
Some people are of the thought of “do it now and get it over with so we can see it fail and move on”.
Nenshi (head of the Alberta NDP) has literally said he wants the vote to happen today so that we can get this out of the way, stop playing political games once the vote fails, and move on to getting stuff that actually matters done.
Isn’t that exactly how brexit happened?
Wish I followed Brexit more as it was happening, think me being in school at the time had something to do with me not doing so.
However at the same time, I don’t think the majority of people would vote for this. IIrc, support is polling between 20 and 30 percent currently, much higher than I’m comfortable with, but not enough to actually win a vote if it was held today (not to say polls vote btw).
Also worth noting is that last week Smith and Carney had a meeting, to which Smith stated that it was a positive one, so fingers crossed that’s a sign of things in the right direction: https://www.ctvnews.ca/edmonton/article/smith-describes-first-meeting-with-carney-after-the-election-positive/
That may be helpful in curtailment of efforts to persuade fence-sitters.
That’s the thing too, people that are pro-separatism are already on the roll with their efforts to make this a legitimate thing. Just the other day I received a call from the Alberta Republicans with a survey asking if I’d vote yes on a referendum to split from Canada.
Yes. I’ve seen it in the US and hence my trepidation for Canada.
This has been the case for decades. Every time they run the polling, the overwhelming majority don’t want to separate. It’s why they can never get enough signatures to even have a referendum.
Which is why they lowered that number.
Most people in Alberta are Canadians through and through, whatever blowhards like Smith want to think.
The sooner she fucks off down to a plush energy company board seat in the States, the better we’ll all be.
What does “leave” mean in this context? A vote to leave?
Yes. Sometimes people hide unpopular opinions, until they’re popular.
Sometimes people hold unpopular opinions privately until they’re examined under the spotlight. Then they realize that’s not actually their opinion. See: Brexit.
You think 100% of Albertans and Saskatchewanians want to split from Canada?
Yves-François Blanchet said it best: oil and gas is not an identity.
Albertans who hate Canada should simply move to the US or Russia.
Big pipeline projects require a guaranteed climate terrorist future with world subjugated to dead ender energy for 40 years. Oil use, other than for war, is significantly down in last 2 years. EVs are making a big dent in China and Europe, and South. Desperation to steal public funds to subsidize oil industry was part of funding for Trump’s victory, as a last gasp for industry profit protection.
If Alberta wants to pay for a pipeline east, rest of Canada can be nice about it. Smartest move would be expanded railways through Ontario and Quebec that go a bit norther than existing routes so that more cargo volume can pass through Canada, and be remote enough that accidents don’t kill too many. In a greener future, population around those rail corridors can increase, even as oil use dies off completely, or sufficiently to not have large export markets, that makes oil only infrastructure a bad investment. But even if using existing railways/trucks causes more deaths from accidents, it’s still the smartest/least economic risky path.
Absolutely not under any circumstances, should Federal government submit to Alberta referendum extortion as a reason to invest 1 red cent into Alberta. I’d rather see export tariffs on Alberta oil, with 50% of the revenue set aside to repay Alberta after they set a path towards Canadian unity. I’d rather see very aggressive demands on secessionist movements to allow subregions to vote to either become independent city states or Canadian associated regions.
It’s also categorically absurd to mass infrastructure spend on FF export potential to Europe from Alberta. Not only are they weaning off dead ender climate terrorist energy, but they have ample supply capacity from nearby abundant sources. Temporary geopolitical sympathies is no basis for Canada to fund stupidity. If Europe wants to help Alberta cofund something, I’m ok with Canada helping provinces along the way approve permits, but the inherent stupidity should not impact other Canadians.
Ontario and Quebec (and prairies) energy is cheaper with tariff free Chinese help. Solar in Ontario and Quebec would now be cheaper than in Arizona despite much less sun with lower financing costs and cheaper inputs. Chinese battery supplies and factories can both make Canadian EV production competitive, and enhance electricity resilience affordably. Canadian trade of oil for solar equipment helps both Alberta and Canadians achieve desired energy policy/benefits without any stupidity.
