No, this isn’t a cast iron thing. Using stainless pans, you can get nonstick effects that, in my experience, far outperform Teflon anyway. The process is called “spot seasoning.” I have cooked crispy, cheesy rice noodles with eggs with zero sticking.
I love my cast iron pans, but stainless is my daily go-to. Added bonus: use 100% copper wool to clean your stainless pan. The copper-coated wool at most grocery stores is problematic; you might get a few uses out of the coated garbage and then it starts shedding metal bits.
In a good non stick pan you can fry an egg without any oil at all, so no, adding a bunch of oil is not a replacement for that
Some people, like me, can’t possibly keep non-stick pans safe. I live on a sailboat, and the effort to keep non-stick pans (even ceramic) safe from damage is disproportionate to the advantages.
There are other cases, such as people who own birds. Overheating Teflon pans can result in PTFE toxicity in birds.
Don’t know who needs to hear this but you don’t need to season stainless steel. You just need to pre-heat it correctly for it to gain non-stick properties.
You have to pre-heat to around 400 degrees Fahrenheit before you put anything in the pan - including oil. You know its good when you drop some water in and it immediately beads up and glides across the entire surface. If it boils and evaporates, the pan is still too cold. If it beads up and starts to glide but freaks out in a certain spot, you have a cold spot in your pan. You’re trying to achieve the leidenfrost effect
Keep in mind that in a lot of dishes you actually want some of the food to stick to the pan and become [frond].(https://www.thespruceeats.com/all-about-fond-995681) Then you deglaze it later with some kind of wine or stock.
Stainless steel is perfect for this kind of cooking. I’ve been using it exclusively for years. Its versatility and low maintenance is why all the best kitchens in the world use it.
Fond. Fronds are parts of a tree.
Thanks for the tip about preheating! I bought a set of Allclad mostly so I could go from stove to oven to finish, but haven’t bothered to learn how to correctly cook eggs in them (have a carbon steel crepe pan that is the designated egg pan, highly recommend). The rest of the reason for them is that they are nigh on unfuck-up-able.
I think it’s a bit disingenuous to say that any other cookware material outperforms Teflon nonstick, and actually harms the conversation when trying to convince people to switch to an alternative. Nothing is going to beat the nonstick performance a fresh nonstick pan, and that’s perfectly fine. I don’t need a pan so nonstick that I could start an egg in a cold pan with no oil. Well-meaning people run the risk of frustrating less experienced cooks when they assert that they’ll get the exact same or better results from a stainless steel pan, which just isn’t true, especially right from the start. Stainless has plenty of other benefits that make it more than worth the learning curve to use. Sometimes you want some stick, to build fond for a pan sauce. Or you need a pan that can go from stovetop to oven to finish cooking.
This post wasn’t aimed at you specifically, I just wanted to vent at what I feel like has been an uptick in cookware bros flexing their ability to reduce sticking on stainless steel (“I’m so smart I name dropped this little-known thing called the Leidenfrost effect”). I quite like your video and post because they show an alternative way to reduce sticking on stainless that is definitely more forgiving for a beginner than trying to hit a specific temperature range.
As a wonderful cook, I resent just about every piece of cooking advice. They’re just oft-repeated, poorly-understood concepts.
For example, I love cast iron. It’s my go-to for nearly all my cooking. I cannot stand cast iron people. They think their lump of iron is a baby that needs to be spit polished and pampered like a Fabergé egg. No, you beat the ever-loving hell out of it, abuse it, soak it in water, leave it to rust, abuse it with scouring pads… then you rub a 1/16th tsp of oil on it and get on with life/cooking.
Edit: Same thing with knives. Before you give me a huge sermon about how to sharpen and care for knives, why don’t you understand that you can use a $5 German steel chef knife, a Rada quick sharp and a hone. For the amount most people cook and prep, that’s going to last 30 years. I cook every single meal from scratch, there’s 20,000 cutting board Kms on my $5 knife. Yet if the subject comes up, people are linking $300 knife reviews… Proof they want to have a knife, not use a knife.
There’s a joy with high crafted tools that you can’t really get with an average equivalent. It usually comes down to comfort and looks. Is it worth it? Depends, I suppose.
I’ve cooked every meal from scratch for 5 years
There’s one tool that was worth the $50 and that was a garlic press, the rest was money wasted
It’s much better to understand your tools and buy appropriately, instead of just assuming that lots of money is the answer
That’s my opinion and experience
I agree with both your original comment and the edit, but especially the bit about cast iron. Neglecting mine for an extended period led to uneven patches of seasoning, but when I got round to giving it a proper scrub, it was like hitting a reset button. I’m going to try to be better at basic seasoning/maintenance this time, but the joy of cast iron is knowing that it’s super forgiving if you do mess it up.
Tangential to your edit: I enjoy being able to sharpen knives, but that’s mostly because I’m a nerd who has other tools I need to sharpen anyway, so I already have the stones. Something that I found striking though is that when I was learning how to sharpen knives, I asked if I could practice on various friends’ kitchen knives. Most of them were poor students, so I sharpened many cheap knives, and I was impressed by how well some of the cheaper ones performed compared once they were sharp. They held their edge for surprisingly long too.
I’m quite fond of my Wusthof chef’s knife, which was a bit of an indulgent treat for myself, but I am utterly baffled by the gear acquisition syndrome that so many seem to fall into. It’s not just that prospect of someone who barely cooks buying a $300 knife that perplexes me, but that so many of these people keep acquiring more knives. If they said that collecting knives was just their hobby, and that they were never intending to actually use them, then I’d shrug and say fair enough. That’s pretty rare though — the underlying implication that these people seem to operate under is that the fancy knives make you a better cook (and that the perfect knife will make good cooking into an effortless, joyful endeavour). It’s an odd culture that’s developed.
You’re making some great points
I like that you like sharpening, my grandfather taught me how as well and it’s a pleasure to know how. I have also been surprised how some “bargain basement” cheap ones are higher quality steel than the expensive Henkels, just as one random example
Maybe it’s my fault, but I don’t think so, I think it just revealed a deeper truth to me…
I was given professional chef knives by someone who dropped out of cooking school. I mean, you could just hold the chef knife in your hand for a second and tell you are dealing with a completely “next level” tool
I think I had that knife for all of 5 days before something took a massive chip out of the edge. I suppose a person could argue it was my fault. I really don’t think it was, I think it was just a freak incident. But the timing of it revealed to me that I’m just going to stick with my cheapos. There is too much going on with cooking to have to stress about if my little delicate knife can handle a tap against a pan edge
That chipping incident disabused me of many false notions. I can absolutely acknowledge it made prep quicker, but I did the mental math and realized I’m not going to pamper and baby knives my whole life. I need to be able to have tools that if they break, they go straight in the trash and I just get another one. In the forensic analysis, it’s much cheaper and easier to go that way.
This is for me as a home cook - I can acknowledge if I worked in a professional environment I would need pro tools that I would baby and pamper, but my home kitchen is not the place
I went for a cheapish knife, like £20 or so each for a few knives. My thinking was I don’t want the 20 knives in a set for £19.99 that are probably made of stamped aluminium and hollow plastic handles, but by £20 you are getting something good without spending a silly amount of money.
As for the cast iron I won’t deliberately leave mine to rust, but happily use it over a fire and then just wipe off the worst of the soot/ash. But it’s black anyway so no one is going to notice spot buildup. Just remove anything that would easily brush off on other things.
I agree with your approach
I think knife sets are a bit of a con job because a good cook really just uses one or two. I’m looking at my knife block and I’m seeing 9 different knives in there, two of them get used. Two… The $5 el-cheapo chef knife and a $1 paring knife. I haven’t used the serrated bread knife in 10 years, because my chef knife is sharp enough to shave my beard
I’m also kind of exaggerating a bit on my prices. Yes I’ve paid $5 or 6 but I time the purchases to be right after Christmas when they’re on clearance. I’d say in “real money” and with recent inflation I’m using about a $35 CAD knife
I also find the pricing of them to be completely arbitrary. I have been gifted knives that should be extraordinarily high quality based on retail price… And found the handles/plugs were falling off, or they were degrading within weeks!
I don’t understand why we live in a world where someone can sell a $500 knife that in terms of manufacture and material cost, is almost indistinguishable from a no-frills budget one. And in many cases, conspicuously worse in every measurement!
Been looking at sharpening stones a bit today, genuinely wonder if I could instead get 2 slate roof tiles and grind them against each other until the surface is flat enough to use to sharpen a knife. Would cost almost nothing.
Or bits of slate for making walls, would have more thickness to it but otherwise more irregular sizing. Could chip it to the right kind of size first and then grind the stones smooth though.
I love the wild, devil may care, DIY approach!
It’s the type of lunacy that I would try just to see how it works hahahah
I’ve said in many other threads in regards to cooking, and my knives, that I admit and confess, in full, that I am a complete rebel and sinner
I use a dual wheel Rada quick sharp to blast the correctly angled edge, knowing full-well that it shears off material, and then I quickly use my 14-in hone. I am completely aware that I am gradually eroding my knife, but I don’t care, it’s sharp enough to shave a buffalo and it takes me 8 seconds
I know by official standards and reckoning… I am abusing my knives and doing it “wrong”
But I cook every day, and it takes me 5 years to go through a knife. I completely gave up on sharpening with a stone a decade ago. My attitude is “fuck it, I’ll just get another knife in 5 years, this is a primary tool for me and I’m not going to baby them”
I would love to know how this works out for you though!!! I can absolutely envision a scenario where you angle these pieces of slate and you make yourself your own version of a quick sharp!! This is madness though, which is why I love it LOL
Knife hipsters: You must spend £200 on these whetstones!
Me: Haha, £1.50 roof tile.
Shame I don’t live near anywhere to get slate or another suitable rock type, would be a few hundred miles away. The rock here is rather crumbly sedimentary rock from what I have seen. Slate coasters could be dual purpose.
Now you’ve got me wondering what kind of materials are cheap as hell, come flat out of the production line, and are still more durable than the steel you’re sharpening.
This whole convo has got me thinking!
World is a better place when we dont buy pans that are designed to give you cancer and fail in a few years… Teflon is reserved for the 1-2 dishes that require non stick at a low temperature. The few dishes that I cant think of right now but i’m sure they’re out there.
You won’t find any disagreement from me there. I just think that when you set the expectation too high (stainless steel can actually be more nonstick than Teflon), people will give up and just go back to nonstick pans when they can’t achieve those results.
Regarding dishes that are solely the domain of Teflon, I think it definitely has a place for dishes that already have a high bar for execution. A perfect French omelette is hard enough on a nonstick that adding another layer of heat management puts it out of reach for most people. But like you said, there’s not much that I’d use Teflon for, so I just don’t have one after switching to induction.
I’m glad I am reading your comments. I am that kitchen novice. And so is my husband. We’ve been trying to move away from Teflon since we had a baby, and are struggling to make stainless steel worth the extra time it takes to clean. I’ve been feeling very frustrated that despite trying to do the heat it up and use oil thing, it’s still awful, and I figured either we’re dumb and bad or everyone online is just lying. We just went back to Teflon, because people online say it should be perfectly non stick and then also that you can only clean the stainless steel with a soft cloth. It’s hell.
First of all, congratulations on the baby! :) If you don’t mind me asking, what sorts of dishes are you struggling to make on stainless steel?
I’m going to be presumptuous here and make a few suggestions, so feel free to push back if you’ve tried some of these things and they haven’t worked or aren’t as easy as I’m presenting. If you do still want to transition to stainless, it’ll be easiest to start by only doing it bit by bit, rather than all at once. Dishes that naturally contain some acidic element (like tomatoes, citrus juice, vinegars, or wine) will be easiest to cook without a bunch of sticking. I’d recommend starting with a tomato-based pasta sauce. If, as it reduces, you notice bits sticking to the sides, it’s easy enough to loosen up just by stirring a bit of the sauce onto it. Once you’re more comfortable with this, you can try sauteing vegetables in the pan. Even with preheating, it’ll might result in some stuck on bits, but adding a splash of lemon juice or champagne vinegar at the very end and agitating all of the ingredients should both brighten up the overall dish a bit as well as lift most (if not all) of those browned spots you saw. When it comes to searing meats, you might also have to adjust how often you’re flipping. If it feels stuck when trying to flip it for the first and second time, waiting a bit longer will eventually lead to the meat releasing from the pan. After the initial release on both sides, it won’t be anywhere near as sticky and you can flip as often as you’re used to. I wouldn’t worry about any browned spots either. While resting the meat, you can toss a bit of wine along with some stock in, turn up the heat, and stir continuously to loosen those bits up as well as flavor your pan sauce. Once it’s reduced to about your desired consistency, you can throw a slice or two of cold butter in and stir for a relatively low effort but still tasty pan sauce. Plus, you make washing the pan much easier. I think this tends to be easier than trying to achieve a nonstick effect with stainless, and sort of demonstrates that there’s ways to work around the issues some people have that aren’t strictly heat management.
My cat really wanted to press the submit button halfway through and force me to edit it to complete the thought as quickly as possible. Sorry if it isn’t quite helpful, and I’d be happy to follow up on any of it.
That’s all wonderful advice. I’m trying to make scrambled eggs. It’s one of the baby’s favorite foods. Any advice there?
Unfortunately, scrambled eggs are one of those things that are a bit harder to cook in stainless. If you’ve been using oil, switching to butter can help with some of the sticking, but you might end up using more butter than you’d like and some heat management is still necessary. Honestly, a lot of people keep a single nonstick frying pan just for things like eggs, seared fish, or sauteed tofu, so don’t feel pressured to make it work on stainless.
If you really feel compelled to move off Teflon completely, a carbon steel or cast iron pan will be much better suited to replacing nonstick for the instances where you’re getting excessive sticking, at the cost of needing to avoid acids in the pan. But if I were you, I’d just keep using my Teflon pans until there’s any flaking or chipping before making up my mind.
Thank you for the response
Got 2 cast iron pans, one probably needs a good reseasoning sometime but the other is really good right now. Possibly not as good as brand new Teflon, but how long does Teflon remain good as new? Mine has long passed the age at which Teflon should be disposed of too, so how much less pan waste am I making by using cast iron?
I can also use it over a firepit, just brush the ash off the base when I bring it back in.
I’d posit that your well-loved cast iron looks even better than new. For me, moving off nonstick pans was about sustainability (and money waste, who wants to buy a 2 year subscription to cooking?), but I can’t get over how beautiful some cookware gets just from being used. The patinas on cast iron/carbon steel pans reflect the dedication of their owners to a craft, which I’ll take any day over a colorful pan whose surface flakes just from looking at it.
Even easier, heat the stainless steel pan until water balls up and skitters/rolls across it instead of evaporating.
Add oil and you can fry an egg on that pan
Recipe:
1 egg
3/4 cup of your favorite oil
1 medium banana
1 pinch lemon zest
Put oil in pan over medium high heat until oil just smokes, allow to smoke for 15 seconds, then reduce temperature to “egg making temperature”. Add egg. Burn the shit out of that innocent bastard and push it around while repeating “egg slide freely!”. Remove your egg with a crispy, brown bottom and wet, runny whites from the skillet. Reserve oil.
Into one large coffee mug, pour your oil, add lemon zest.
Last, throw all this in the trash with your Teflon skillet, and eat the banana.
Howtobasic is that you?
Certainly about as funny.
Can someone link to the actual fucking article describing how to do the spot seasoning method?
I keep seeing people urging to go back to cast iron or stainless steel, but when I left the nest 5 years ago, I picked up ceramic pans, and you can use them the same way as teflons and I have yet to lose the nonstick.
Some people, like me, can’t possibly keep non-stick pans safe. I live on a sailboat, and the effort to keep non-stick pans (even ceramic) safe from damage is disproportionate to the advantages. Also, I am away from resupply for long periods of time. If my pan gets damaged, I can’t just hop down to the store to replace it.
Don’t use bar keepers friend to clean them. That fucked up ours.
Could be cheaper enamel. Le Cruset specifically mentions it in their cleaning instructions
Bar Keeper’s Friend, or a paste of baking soda and water, also comes in handy for cleaning tough stains, oil residue and marks on your Dutch oven as well
I use it on my enameled dutch oven all the time and I’ve never had an issue.
Le Creuset enameled cast iron isn’t the same kind of thing as the ceramic nonstick the person upthread was talking about.
Don’t those use very similar coatings as Teflon?
Sis anyone else watch the video? I was waiting for his”spot seasoning method” until I saw just how much oil he used to cook and egg without sticking to his wok. Dude lost all credibility right there, and I quit watching
“the egg glides freely…”
the egg does not, in fact, glide freely. it’s also fucking burned to a crisp and there’s like an ocean of oil in there. terrible, terrible video.
This is how you cook with stainless. Get a high smoke point oil, get the pan and oil plenty hot, the put the food in. It immediately sears the contact surface and this is what prevents sticking. This is also why you slowly place food in the pan (other than to avoid spatter), it gives a little extra time for this to happen. Otherwise you gotta wait for the surface to brown and hopefully unstick, which might work for things like chicken or the skin side of fish, but anything liquid like eggs or super soft like the fish meat will have a good chance of sticking.
IOW, just do what chefs usually tell you to do with stainless and get it hot with the correct oil. Best odds of not sticking. Modern non-stick pans are pretty good if you obey the rules about using them.
This is how you cook with stainless. Get a high smoke point oil, get the pan and oil plenty hot, the put the food in.
This is not, strictly speaking, true for eggs.
I’ve cooked eggs in stainless nearly every day for the last couple of decades. I can crack a few eggs in a properly prepared cold pan, and still get non stick effects, such that the food will slide right out without using a tool.
The level of heat which would require a high smoke point oil is generally much too high for cooking most styles of eggs anyway.
People should use whatever method works for them, I’m not judging, but high heat is not required for most styles of eggs.
You can absolutely cook an egg without sticking without needing that much fat and without the egg burning.
Also for skillets you can just buy ceramic. As long as you don’t let them sit with food on them they stay pretty non-stick for years.
Some people, like me, can’t possibly keep non-stick pans safe. I live on a sailboat, and the effort to keep non-stick pans (even ceramic) safe from damage is disproportionate to the advantages.
Huh, I haven’t treated my ceramic skillets special at all, just rinse 'em out when I’m done and throw 'em in the dishwasher, or if I have to hand-wash I can just scrub them real quick since they’re not nasty with food gunk all over them. To the best of my knowledge they don’t require special treatment, I only suggest not letting them sit with food on them because that’ll make anything harder to clean up.
The first hazard to my pans is clunking around while at sea. This is mitigable by putting a cloth in the pan to protect it from other pans. My partner made a bag to hold our ceramic pan. But then the bag got nasty moldy, as porous things always do when sitting in a compartment on a boat. Then our silicone spatula wore out, like they invariably do; I’ve had the same stainless cooking utensils for going on 30 years. The ceramic pan was given away at our next port.
And ceramic pans still wear out with use, regardless of the level of care. They just last a bit longer than traditional non-silicon nonstick pans.
Oh yeah I didn’t think about the fact that it’s porous, shit. Yeah I’ve had my ceramic skillet set for like 15 years and never done anything special with them, but also no salt water and stuff growing on every available surface. Fair point.
YSK that Teflon pans don’t need any seasoning and are still non-stick.
What’s with all the tinfoil-hattery on this site about teflon?
No tinfoil hattery for me. I love how Teflon pans perform. Some people, like me, can’t possibly keep non-stick pans safe. I live on a sailboat, and the effort to keep non-stick pans (even ceramic) safe from damage is disproportionate to the advantages. Also, I am away from resupply for long periods of time. If my pan gets damaged, I can’t just hop down to the store to replace it.
There are other cases, such as people who own birds. Overheating Teflon pans can result in PTFE toxicity in birds.
PFOA is one of the most prominent forever-chemicals and has polluted every single living creature on earth (including you). PFTE is another one.
PFOA causes tumors and has been found in 100% of the places (including living creatures) that is has been tested for. Every human, every animal, every river, every forest, every senior, every newborn.
The real “tinfoil hat” is how we let them get away with it. Oh? They had money and were in America? You don’t say.
PFOA was banned 10 years ago in the US and 20 years ago in the UK.
Any evidence that PFTE is harmful to that level?
DuPont/Chemours and 3M just add or subtract from the chain of the molecule and call it something new. It’s the same poisonous shit.
PFOA was banned, but PFOS and other very-slightly-different forever chemicals are not banned, therefore get around those regulations due to that technicality. Also, the current US administration is looking into removing a lot of those regulations.
Teflon itself cannot penetrate your cells and actually do leave your body without harming you in the long run. However other forever chemicals do add up and cause cancer. Check video from Veritassium who imo explained it very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC2eSujzrUY
Thanks, T-Fal
I need my pans that need to be treated like a princess and then fail anyway in a few years and need to be thrown and replaced. I need to keep doing it cause those poor people at teflon plants cant have a job creating one of the most polluting chemicals out there
I prefer carbon steel. You get the same seasoning of cast iron and easy care, but it’s lighter so it heats more quickly and evenly. It’s a bit more expensive than cast iron but much cheaper than an All-Clad stainless pan.
I only use stainless for acidic foods, like tomato sauces.
Carbon steel FTW. I have a hand-hammered carbon steel wok (as well as one carbon steel knife). I live on a sailboat which means salt air. These two pieces of carbon steel perform so well that I’m willing to accept their higher maintenance “costs” (cost, in the effort context).
Things that heat up more quickly dont heat up more evenly
“a stainless… steel… WOK.”
I’m going to need a supercut of this guy saying “WOK”.
I appreciate that people have found solutions for avoiding materials that can become dangerous when overheated. I, too, have gone on PFOA-free journeys.
But oh my god, that egg is swimming in oil! I don’t want that many calories, and I don’t want to feel a greasy egg in my mouth.
I understand this solution is great for many people, and they should be proud and happy that they have reached their Teflon-free goals.
But as a person who can’t digest high amounts of fats without consequences and watches their calories, this is only a solution for people who love bathing their food in oil. I also avoid saturated fats, which are superior for their non-stick properties. I want to use olive oil, nothing else.
But fine, I will try it on my stainless pan and see what happens. Olive oil, heat to smoke, wipe, then a small amount of olive oil again for normal cooking.
If it works I’ll be thrilled. If not, back to my trusty teflons that never fail me. Wish me luck! Got any more tips?
Yeah, don’t use that huge amount of oil. I’ve never had eggs stick in my cast iron, using 1-2 tablespoons of oil or butter. It shouldn’t need to swim in oil and if it is, you’re doing something wrong
my seasoning flaked off and it became metallic appearance. I was struggling with obtaining stable seasoning, but found a reddit post that suggesting Blueing process. You heat-up your clean wok a lot with no-oil the iron reacts with oxygen to form magnetite Fe3O4 which holds seasoning much better. After you blue your wok, you season it by heating up some oil, but generally it seasons itself diring usage. If something starts sticking, more oil and more heat usually does the job.
When my cast iron started flaking, it was because I was being too gentle with it. Once I began to suspect that that was the case, I decided that from now on if this layer of seasoning isn’t strong enough to withstand my copper scrub pad, then it’s not worthy to be the foundation for the next later of seasoning. I’ve had much better results with this approach.
