- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.world
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Imagine joining the Marines and ending up doing this for Donald Trump and Pete Hegseth.
The oath clearly states you’ll follow legal orders of the officers above you. I would like to think when I was in the military I would refuse to follow these illegal orders. In reality I have no idea what I would do. It would be a long legal battle and potentially life ruining event to do the right thing.
Soldiers aren’t lawyers either. So you’d have to be super confident in your knowledge of the law to risk discharge or imprisonment.
Yeah, for most things. But when it comes to fighting your own citizens, it feels pretty cut and dry. But again, this is easy for me to say now that I’m not wearing the uniform anymore.
I appreciate your honesty. People make it sound so easy to do the right thing but when you’re in a group like the military where conformity is pretty much a matter of life and death, it’s like a very hard decision to make.
The USMC has a chain of command whose job it is to know this shit. They let those Marines down and have stained the honor of the Corps.
The writing has been on the wall since at least last February or whenever it was trump replaced so much of the DoD top brass. This was always what - in his first term he tried to send troops to Oregon and the DoD correctly told him “no”. Those people are replaced with scum who don’t mind violating the Posse Comitatus Act.
If they are acting illegally, they could in theory face state charges for assault and battery. In theory. Because they have no arrest powers. Maybe. Right? That’s the tricky point.
So they would have to be super confident to not find out the scope of their authority.
Thank you for being honest about it. A different thread over the same topic people were saying it’s very simple and military should be able to easily disobey these illegal orders. Reality is much different. I know it’s very scary to potentially throw your life away to do the right thing and no one can truly say what they would do in this type of situation without actually living it.
Yeah, you’re talking about potentially getting a dishonorable discharge making it super hard to get another good job and potentially going to military prison. It’s an insanely hard situation to be in. The guilt you’ll live with for following orders or having life long economic ruin. I’m just so glad I’m not in the military anymore.
Right, and on the other hand they are risking state prison.
There does exist a hotline to call if you’re being given illegal orders, at least.
What good is it when they’re doing it live on television?
The hotline is for service members if they are directly given an illegal order, not for civilians to report service members.
Right. And again, they’re already carrying out those orders in front of the entire world.
Who does the complaint go to that isn’t already well aware?
Yeah, I would have definitely called it. However, far too many people are too proud to reach out for help.
“Be a good little crayon eater, maggot, and do as you’re told unless you want to end up in there with them.” -Commanding officer, probably
I mean the oath is to defend the constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic and then gets into obeying orders.
In my country there’s a thing called court martial. I guess it’s the same in the US. So if a soldier disobeys it’ll probably be that.
Yep, exactly the same. The military has its own set of laws called the Uniform Code of Military Justice. You can be court martialed for breaking the UCMJ.
yeah, aside from all of the other bs (which is a lot) it’s just treating the marines like a personal toy
So … the US Army is now an occupying force, and the Second Amendment crowd will activate to save us?
OK. This needs to be said. Not every 2A adherant is a magat or a republican. There are many of us actual leftists that are armed and getting ready to actually fight this shit. The NRA != every armed American, and the time for leftists failing to be armed is long gone. Dems have been fighting against an actual armed left for decades because they love their capitalism. It is time to mobilize for real.
Getting ready for what? What else is there to wait for? Their permission?
Organization
getting ready
Everybody in the US is technically a 2nd amendment person. what are you waiting for?
marines now.
You had me in the first half.
The 2a crowd isn’t likely to save you, they’re watching Fox and Friends.
Oh hey look more blatantly illegal shit from orange leader
orange leader
Ah hem, refer to him with the respect the office deserves.
It’s Mustard Mussolini to you peasant.
Cheeto Benito.
I like to simply call him Rump
orange marmalade, with a viscosity of kari syrup.
I know malls are dead, but has everyone forget about Orange Julius (Caesar)?
This is what the NRA have been waiting for, is it not? Let’s just watch them leap into action to safeguard constitutional rights against an oppressive regime.
Any minute now.
Any minute now.
Here they come! Oh, sorry it’s a pigeon.
It must be soon.
Hmm…
They only will if the cop/ice/marine is black.
I’m sure someday there will be consequences for all these heinous crimes. Might even be the same day my flying unicorn crashes into a supermodel and we go out to lunch and figure out cold fusion together on the back of a napkin.
Had me in the first half, NGL
Many in the US were silent when the US military was doing that to civilians in Afghanistan and Iraq.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/most-guantanamo-detainees-are-innocent-ex-bush-official-1.804550
“Any temporary detention ends immediately when the individual(s) can be safely transferred to the custody of appropriate civilian law enforcement personnel,” a spokesperson said.
Coming soon:
“Day 3650, we’ll transfer you to an appropriate civilian law enforcement personnel soon, prisoner.”
They can’t perform arrests. They can only temporarily detain them with zip ties and transfer them by van to the police station.
What is their documented legal definition of the length of “temporarily detain”?
Depending on the state, you may detain someone in the process of a crime until law enforcement can take them. I know in Texas, civilian arrest powers are very similar to police.
Being active military throws a huge wrench in this, however, as well as being ordered to a place and deployed with the purpose of policing. You can’t just throw up a “this is federal property” defense, because this is also a public building.
No mention of why.
Why, “specific circumstances” of course.
I read the article. He crossed a yellow taped off area of the building perimeter.
He was a vet headed into the building for some reason and the marines stopped him, detained, turned over, and he was then released.
The guy didn’t seem to phased by it. Overall I’d give it a 5/7.
“They’re just doing their job,” said Leao,
No, Marcos, I don’t think they are.
That tattoo on that pigs knuckles; anyone got a better image? Ms13?
This is why I’ll never thank the troops.
Troops who invade our country and do violence to our people are our enemy, no matter what flag they fly or uniform they wear. Fuck these scum.
I can’t stop thinking of the contrast between charged-up Americans willing to fight, kill, and die in a shitty battlefield for our freedoms but when our freedoms are being destroyed as the main attraction these guys are nowhere.
when republicans do it, its all performative anyways.
What would happen if someone were to detain a group of marines (with the minimal force necessary), in the wrong assumption - honest mistake - that they were about to execute illegal orders?
They’re trained and equipped in a way that you are not. I do not expect this to succeed unless you’ve already convinced them that they want to surrender.
While they have the physical ability to resist, they don’t have the legal right. They are subject to the same laws as anyone in the US.
In fact, they might be commanded to stand down and accept it, because the legal implications of acting like an occupying force would have long term, very bad effects for the existence of the marines.
While that might sound far fetched, the marine corps is smart, and would allow a few soldiers to face some humiliation and risk the government that funds them thinking “what if that was my kids?”
They’re deployed in the hope of producing a massacre that can be blamed on the victims. I do not recommend counting on their leadership ordering a surrender
I feel SO free right now. :P
You can literally hear it ringing in your ears when they fire “non lethal” rounds…
…
Reuters images showed Marines apprehending a civilian, restraining his hands with zip ties and then handing him over to civilians from the Department of Homeland Security.
Asked about the incident, the U.S. military’s Northern Command spokesperson said active duty forces “may temporarily detain an individual in specific circumstances.”
“Any temporary detention ends immediately when the individual(s) can be safely transferred to the custody of appropriate civilian law enforcement personnel,” a spokesperson said.
…
Temporary detainment into permanent detainment.
Posse Comitatus Act
That was my first thought. Where are all the self-described Libertarians who should be losing their shit over this? They should be in the street screaming “posse comitatus!” at the tops of their lungs.
This is what you voted for protest-non-voters.
Keep stirring up the infighting! Youre doing a phenomenal job at accomplishing zilch.
Exhibit A.
I hope they ultimately meet a similar fate or find early graves rather than act as traitors. Rest in piss redneck trash, there’s no honor or valor involved.
“Just doing their job” I hope somebody tells them the same while disappearing them to somewhere I won’t give a flying fuck about. May your partners be slutted out and your children die before you.
