Oh noes, the target of the insult is insulted in a way the target would not approve.
It’s like the insult is meant to inflict abuse on the target.
Logic circuits breaking down.
What will society do?
Insult Caitlin Jenner about everything else she’s a horrible person about. She killed a person, she supports a fascist, she’s an adultular, a narcissist, was on the Kardashians, seriously take your pick. I could talk trash about Caitlin Jenner for a long time without ever bringing up her transition. I don’t need to be transphobic to “inflict abuse”.
The reason people are pin pointing her transition is because she’s actively advocating for a world in which she is deadnamed. She is asking for it, it is mean to show her again how it feels and how stupid she is.
Sure you don’t need to if abuse is the only goal.
It’s a weird boundary to set for abusive language specifically disparaging that quality of their identity to call out the conflict with their support for a person whose policies are hostile to that identity.
Do you know insults aren’t good?
she supports a fascist, she’s an adultular, a narcissist
First, adultular?
Second, that’s exactly what they’re doing & who they’re proudly supporting: restating what they’re shameless about isn’t much of an insult to the subject as it fails to demean & offend.
was on the Kardashians
Do you understand the concept of insult?
They’re unkind.
Except that by misgendering her you’re causing harm to the trans community as a whole. We don’t misgender cisgender people when they are bad people. Misgendering transgender people who do bad things only shows that respecting transgender identity is conditional and can be revoked by other people. It’s not. It’s who we are. Even if someone is a trash fire human being they still should be gendered correctly.
Transphobes will read comments misgendering or deadnaming Caitlyn and cheer along. There are far, far better ways to vocalize disapproval of her. Ways that don’t hurt other trans people.
I appreciate your point. A few months ago I was in a discussion with someone on Lemmy about the strategy of maliciously complying with someone that has insincerely stated a preference for neo-pronouns. The example in the discussion was Elon Musk claiming “prosecute/Fauci” as pronouns, but insincere pronouns aren’t necessarily so easily spotted. (My position was and is that it’s okay to maliciously comply with someone’s professed pronouns to demonstrate that person’s insincerity)
If you’re not tired of tutoring ignorant allies I’d really appreciate your opinion on that dilemma.
The concept is that normalizing dead naming as an insult will result in a cascading effect that harms trans people across the board, right? I’m not trans, but it should be pretty obvious - dead naming is dead naming even if you’re a piece of shit liar.
I thought the “phobia” part was relevant but in looking up definitions of transphobia and homophobia I see that, etymologically, the phobia part seems to be irrelevant. TIL!
I feel like accepting a trans person is, in fact, conditional on their support for other trans people. Like, it doesn’t have to be their whole personality, but full-throatedly supporting the anti-trans administration is the exact opposite of supporting the trans community.
The problem with that, again, is that you are outing that you won’t support trans people you disagree with. You can respect Caitlyn’s gender identity and chosen name while still calling her a bloody numpty.
Well I mean, all of the trans communities are on an instance with downvotes disabled for a reason. This place is ‘left wing’ when it comes to Trump but when it comes to LGBTQ+ issues, feminism or even discussion about religion, I have my doubts about how ‘left wing’ people here really are.
This is, quite literally, same as Jews for Hitler -movement in pre-The War Germany. There are shades of grey in everything, and everyone. You can be bad or the side of bad people, even if you are a minority.
I agree. Looking through the comments, I’m getting that “crabs fighting in the pot, pulling the others back in” vibe. We elevate society by being better. Period. Not being better if.
seeing alot of transphobia in the comments, light and probably accidental but yes deadnaming caitlyn is transphobia even if she fucking sucks.
it shows the trans people here that your acceptance is conditional on us agreeing with you.
you can call her out for her bs without deadnaming her
The reply to her tweet is on point, though. Any more deadnaming is just deadnaming.
Anyway, I would gladly provide her with HRT and send her to a labor camp as an enemy of the people.
Oh noes, the target of the insult is insulted in a way the target would not approve. It’s like the insult is meant to inflict abuse on the target. Logic circuits breaking down. What will society do?
Insult Caitlin Jenner about everything else she’s a horrible person about. She killed a person, she supports a fascist, she’s an adultular, a narcissist, was on the Kardashians, seriously take your pick. I could talk trash about Caitlin Jenner for a long time without ever bringing up her transition. I don’t need to be transphobic to “inflict abuse”.
The reason people are pin pointing her transition is because she’s actively advocating for a world in which she is deadnamed. She is asking for it, it is mean to show her again how it feels and how stupid she is.
Sure you don’t need to if abuse is the only goal. It’s a weird boundary to set for abusive language specifically disparaging that quality of their identity to call out the conflict with their support for a person whose policies are hostile to that identity. Do you know insults aren’t good?
First, adultular? Second, that’s exactly what they’re doing & who they’re proudly supporting: restating what they’re shameless about isn’t much of an insult to the subject as it fails to demean & offend.
Do you understand the concept of insult? They’re unkind.
Not exactly. If anything it’s conditional on you not selling your allies/kin down the river.
Except that by misgendering her you’re causing harm to the trans community as a whole. We don’t misgender cisgender people when they are bad people. Misgendering transgender people who do bad things only shows that respecting transgender identity is conditional and can be revoked by other people. It’s not. It’s who we are. Even if someone is a trash fire human being they still should be gendered correctly.
Transphobes will read comments misgendering or deadnaming Caitlyn and cheer along. There are far, far better ways to vocalize disapproval of her. Ways that don’t hurt other trans people.
We don’t? I could have sworn cisgender people do that to insult each other all the time. It’s like a classic insult.
Discussing acceptable insults, while technically possible, seems somewhat irrational. The concept of an ethical insult doesn’t make total sense.
It all boils down to the very common phenomenon of thinking certain people, “bad people,” are worthy of any form of attack available.
I appreciate your point. A few months ago I was in a discussion with someone on Lemmy about the strategy of maliciously complying with someone that has insincerely stated a preference for neo-pronouns. The example in the discussion was Elon Musk claiming “prosecute/Fauci” as pronouns, but insincere pronouns aren’t necessarily so easily spotted. (My position was and is that it’s okay to maliciously comply with someone’s professed pronouns to demonstrate that person’s insincerity)
If you’re not tired of tutoring ignorant allies I’d really appreciate your opinion on that dilemma.
The concept is that normalizing dead naming as an insult will result in a cascading effect that harms trans people across the board, right? I’m not trans, but it should be pretty obvious - dead naming is dead naming even if you’re a piece of shit liar.
Rights for one are rights for all. Even elmo
I’m not disagreeing on morality of misgendering. I’m disagreeing that the misgendering is conditional on agreement.
I don’t want to sound mean with this I’m sure you mean the best but this isn’t a debate
Deadnaming and/or misgendering someone purposefully is transphobia and doing it because they’re a bad person is still transphobia
As a trans person I’m saying that if you are transphobic to someone even if they’re bad is conditional acceptance whether you mean it that way or not
People were deadnaming her in the comments, that’s transphobia not an opinion
This is not what I am disagreeing with you on. I am in full agreement here.
Im disagreeing on this point. It isn’t simply because they’re a bad person.
Agreed
What’s the difference between transphobia and bigotry?
I think you might mean bigotry, albeit a very specific kind.
Yes, and that very specific kind of bigotry is called transphobia…
I thought the “phobia” part was relevant but in looking up definitions of transphobia and homophobia I see that, etymologically, the phobia part seems to be irrelevant. TIL!
ßtop saying that. That’s a pile of shit. BRUCE is the problem, not your allies.
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I feel like accepting a trans person is, in fact, conditional on their support for other trans people. Like, it doesn’t have to be their whole personality, but full-throatedly supporting the anti-trans administration is the exact opposite of supporting the trans community.
The problem with that, again, is that you are outing that you won’t support trans people you disagree with. You can respect Caitlyn’s gender identity and chosen name while still calling her a bloody numpty.
Well I mean, all of the trans communities are on an instance with downvotes disabled for a reason. This place is ‘left wing’ when it comes to Trump but when it comes to LGBTQ+ issues, feminism or even discussion about religion, I have my doubts about how ‘left wing’ people here really are.
This is, quite literally, same as Jews for Hitler -movement in pre-The War Germany. There are shades of grey in everything, and everyone. You can be bad or the side of bad people, even if you are a minority.
I agree. Looking through the comments, I’m getting that “crabs fighting in the pot, pulling the others back in” vibe. We elevate society by being better. Period. Not being better if.
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