Got a lot to say but I’ll keep it brief-ish. Corporations love unhealthy people. They will artificially celebrate this and reinforce unhealthy lifestyles. This extends beyond weight.
Once entrapped, escape is hard. Some are passive and depressed. Some are dismissive and defensive. No matter which cycle you are in, it’s unhealthy.
I think smoking is bad like I think being overweight is bad. If a doctor says alcohol is killing you, it probably is. I don’t think hatred is deserved, but don’t expect any validation for those choices.
The meme isn’t about that, I’ve read stories of some doctors refusing to perform surguries to overweight people, but other doctors doing the surgery anyway.
The same way a lot of women get told stuff is just from their period by doctors.
I’m a medical student and I have some direct experience with this. Sometimes, the difference between the surgeon who will do the procedure versus the surgeon that won’t do the procedure is the availability of specialized facilities and equipment that they have access to. An elective surgery (i.e. not an emergency surgery) can go from routine to very high risk depending on the amount of adipose tissue the patient has.
And it’s not just a matter of the fat tissue overlying the surgical site. Morbidly obese patients are much more likely to have things like sleep apnea which can make anesthesia more risky and might require more specialized equipment than a particular surgeon/hospital/anesthesiologist might have access to. The “morbid” part of “morbid obesity” also refers to the fact that people above a certain threshold of weight are much more likely to have other health conditions like heart disease that make anesthesia more risky.
This is what I came to say but wasn’t smart enough to put into words. There’s a lot more factors than just being overweight of why a surgery can’t be performed. For a while an issue at my hospital was we were one of the few in the area that could do MRIs on larger patients. So bigger hospitals would transfer these patients to us just for an MRI because their MRI machine was too small or couldn’t handle the weight.
There’s a reason you have to get a pre-op physical exam for any non-emergent surgery. Figuring out if you’ll wake up from the anesthesia at all is part of the calculus that determines whether the benefits of the procedure outweigh the risks.
Sometimes. It depends why the first surgeon would be unable to do the procedure. If the problem is that the patient might not wake up from anesthesia because of problems with heart disease, lung problems, or other metabolic issues, then it doesn’t really matter what the surgeon has to say about actually doing the procedure because the anesthesiologist is the one saying “no”. If it’s an issue of too much adipose, sometimes it would mean that the surgery would take longer than it’s safe for the patient to be under anesthesia.
Another possibility is that the first surgeon operates at a facility that doesn’t have access to more advanced technologies or other medical specialists in the event that something goes wrong. And there are some surgeons that are just more willing to accept the risk of a bad outcome, and I would argue that that’s rarely in the patient’s best interest. There are alternative options that the surgeon should discuss with the patient as part of the informed consent process, and sometimes, the alternatives to surgery are just safer than the risk of the surgery itself, even if they aren’t as effective or are a long term treatment (ongoing) as opposed to a definitive treatment (cure). If the patient has a high risk of serious complications, up to and including death, then attempting the curative procedure might be more risk than it’s worth compared to a long term medication that mitigates the disease.
You’ll see this with pregnant patients too. For elective procedures that have safer alternatives or temporizing measures (a holdover treatment until surgery is safe), those are generally preferred to putting a pregnant patient under anesthesia because of all the cardiovascular, immunologic, and other physiologic changes that happen during pregnancy alongside potential risks to the fetus.
Look. Shitty doctors exist, but when 1/3 of the US is overweight, there are underlying issues that need addressing. I only hear horror stories when an addict, alcoholic, or overweight individual in my life is feeling insecure or defensive about a prognosis. Too many people deflect and it’s enabling a much larger issues. Our basic instincts are being exploited.
America’s obesity epidemic is a function of our car culture. This is the only country on God’s green Earth that feels putting in sidewalks is a moral failure.
I don’t know, the medical community ignoring fat people’s health concerns (beyond obesity) and ignoring women’s health concerns, seem to be the same issue and I posit they are the same cause too (hubris, arrogance, and just simply not living up to their oath)
When talking about obese individuals, the fat very easily gets in the way of surgery. Compared to a healthy patient the risk of complications during surgery is much greater and really not worth chancing it (most if the time)
My mother had a doctor that refused to move forward with knee surgery because she was so depressed and refused to do therapy because it hurt her knee so much to move around.
I guess I understand, why go through the trouble of surgery if she’s just going to be a bummer couch potato afterwards and never change her ways?
But at least she’d be a bummer couch potato whose knee didn’t threaten to give out on her whenever she tried to do laundry in the basement.
If I take my car in for new brake pads, don’t refuse me service because the transmission is on its way out.
People are more complicated than cars, and surgeons are no magicians. I think your idea of the reason of your mother’s surgeon for refusal might be a bit off:
Without adequate pre- and post-op physiotherapy, a
joint will likely be worse after surgery.
If simple physiotherapy is already too painful, cutting into this overexcited tissue risks inducing a complex regional pain syndrome.
If someone suffers from both depression and from too much pain to do physiotherapy, they need a multimodal pain therapy to prepare for surgery.
So, based on the bit of info you provided, refusing surgery was very likely the right thing to do to avoid worsening your mother’s situation. What I di hate is when doctors don’t explain themselves and just say “I can’t help you”, but do not point patients to someone who can.
You are ignorant of the genetic factors at play here and I think you need to realize that your rhetoric is identical to victim blaming eugenics ideology. You sound like RFK Jr. and I’m guessing you would want me dead if you could have things that way. It’s honestly despicable and I don’t know how people like you sleep at night.
Hear me out. You’re villainizing me because what I said struck a nerve. You don’t actually believe I want you dead. You’re just upset that I pointed out a deep flaw. Maybe it’s an insecurity, or cognitive dissonance, or whatever. I’m very familiar with this type of response. Whatever it is, realize that someone likely depends on you and that an unhealthy lifestyle is not good for them. I’m encouraging you to do better, if not for yourself, the people in your life you care for. I recognize my ignorance. I’m not a therapist. I’m just stating something I’ve personally observed.
Buddy, you’re over stating the importance of genetics. Time and time again it shows that getting bigger is more nurture than nature. Papers and research retounely come out saying its a two-sides of the same coin issue, but then fail to support their nature/genetics claims, which are often refuted. Slender families get children who end up obese because of lifestyle, and their children become obese. That’s not genetics. The grandchildren end up obese because obese parents place their lifestyle and diets onto their children.
Claiming something is victim blaming is insanely disrespectful to the people who actually get blamed for things out of their control. Your weight is in your control for the vast, VAST majority of people.
People with disabilities who can’t get an opportunity to do something about it? Sure. Can that disability come from genetics, sure. But that’s a small minority of people who are overweight.
Used to see the odd “genetics” fat person and they’d just be built a bit bigger. Now I’m seeing fucking waddling planetoids and that’s not genetics man. Part of that blame belongs to individuals but part of it belongs to the food lobbyists and their quest to add sugar and corn syrup to everything.
Incentivise people to grow their own vegetables (or source them locally from those who already are) and disincentivise the purchase of processed and sweetened food. Have our agencies promote healthy recipes using weight rather than volume measurements and show people how to use scales to properly weigh ingredients and help make it as easy as possible to count calories.
I think their point is that doctors don’t want their patients to become entrapped by obesity into lifelong poor health, which also traps them as sources of revenue for corporations that profit from sickness and fat: pharma, companies that sell fad diet and/or exercise plans, etc. So if your doctor tells you to lose weight, it’s probably coming from a good place, regardless of what else might be going on with your health.
(And just in anticipation of some replies I might get: yes, it’s absolutely a real and shitty thing when doctors only see the fat and assume it’s the cause of all the patient’s problems. You deserve better healthcare than that. But also recognize that while the fat might not be the cause of a given problem, it might be exacerbating that problem.)
Got a lot to say but I’ll keep it brief-ish. Corporations love unhealthy people. They will artificially celebrate this and reinforce unhealthy lifestyles. This extends beyond weight.
Once entrapped, escape is hard. Some are passive and depressed. Some are dismissive and defensive. No matter which cycle you are in, it’s unhealthy.
I think smoking is bad like I think being overweight is bad. If a doctor says alcohol is killing you, it probably is. I don’t think hatred is deserved, but don’t expect any validation for those choices.
The meme isn’t about that, I’ve read stories of some doctors refusing to perform surguries to overweight people, but other doctors doing the surgery anyway.
The same way a lot of women get told stuff is just from their period by doctors.
I’m a medical student and I have some direct experience with this. Sometimes, the difference between the surgeon who will do the procedure versus the surgeon that won’t do the procedure is the availability of specialized facilities and equipment that they have access to. An elective surgery (i.e. not an emergency surgery) can go from routine to very high risk depending on the amount of adipose tissue the patient has.
And it’s not just a matter of the fat tissue overlying the surgical site. Morbidly obese patients are much more likely to have things like sleep apnea which can make anesthesia more risky and might require more specialized equipment than a particular surgeon/hospital/anesthesiologist might have access to. The “morbid” part of “morbid obesity” also refers to the fact that people above a certain threshold of weight are much more likely to have other health conditions like heart disease that make anesthesia more risky.
This is what I came to say but wasn’t smart enough to put into words. There’s a lot more factors than just being overweight of why a surgery can’t be performed. For a while an issue at my hospital was we were one of the few in the area that could do MRIs on larger patients. So bigger hospitals would transfer these patients to us just for an MRI because their MRI machine was too small or couldn’t handle the weight.
There’s a reason you have to get a pre-op physical exam for any non-emergent surgery. Figuring out if you’ll wake up from the anesthesia at all is part of the calculus that determines whether the benefits of the procedure outweigh the risks.
Would a surgeon unable to do it refer the patient to one who is capable?
Sometimes. It depends why the first surgeon would be unable to do the procedure. If the problem is that the patient might not wake up from anesthesia because of problems with heart disease, lung problems, or other metabolic issues, then it doesn’t really matter what the surgeon has to say about actually doing the procedure because the anesthesiologist is the one saying “no”. If it’s an issue of too much adipose, sometimes it would mean that the surgery would take longer than it’s safe for the patient to be under anesthesia.
Another possibility is that the first surgeon operates at a facility that doesn’t have access to more advanced technologies or other medical specialists in the event that something goes wrong. And there are some surgeons that are just more willing to accept the risk of a bad outcome, and I would argue that that’s rarely in the patient’s best interest. There are alternative options that the surgeon should discuss with the patient as part of the informed consent process, and sometimes, the alternatives to surgery are just safer than the risk of the surgery itself, even if they aren’t as effective or are a long term treatment (ongoing) as opposed to a definitive treatment (cure). If the patient has a high risk of serious complications, up to and including death, then attempting the curative procedure might be more risk than it’s worth compared to a long term medication that mitigates the disease.
You’ll see this with pregnant patients too. For elective procedures that have safer alternatives or temporizing measures (a holdover treatment until surgery is safe), those are generally preferred to putting a pregnant patient under anesthesia because of all the cardiovascular, immunologic, and other physiologic changes that happen during pregnancy alongside potential risks to the fetus.
Look. Shitty doctors exist, but when 1/3 of the US is overweight, there are underlying issues that need addressing. I only hear horror stories when an addict, alcoholic, or overweight individual in my life is feeling insecure or defensive about a prognosis. Too many people deflect and it’s enabling a much larger issues. Our basic instincts are being exploited.
Yes. They’re in the meme.
I know, I’m not arguing for obesity, that would be stupid.
Well someone’s gonna have to
America’s obesity epidemic is a function of our car culture. This is the only country on God’s green Earth that feels putting in sidewalks is a moral failure.
Obesity is a food issue, our reliance on cars and increasingly sedentary lifestyle may exacerbate the issue but it’s not the cause
I have some horror stories about being a normal weight woman seeking medical care. What’s that about then?
Different issues have different causes.
I don’t know, the medical community ignoring fat people’s health concerns (beyond obesity) and ignoring women’s health concerns, seem to be the same issue and I posit they are the same cause too (hubris, arrogance, and just simply not living up to their oath)
When talking about obese individuals, the fat very easily gets in the way of surgery. Compared to a healthy patient the risk of complications during surgery is much greater and really not worth chancing it (most if the time)
Similarly - if you are trans and on HRT, every problem is due to your hormones.
My mother had a doctor that refused to move forward with knee surgery because she was so depressed and refused to do therapy because it hurt her knee so much to move around.
I guess I understand, why go through the trouble of surgery if she’s just going to be a bummer couch potato afterwards and never change her ways?
But at least she’d be a bummer couch potato whose knee didn’t threaten to give out on her whenever she tried to do laundry in the basement.
If I take my car in for new brake pads, don’t refuse me service because the transmission is on its way out.
People are more complicated than cars, and surgeons are no magicians. I think your idea of the reason of your mother’s surgeon for refusal might be a bit off:
Without adequate pre- and post-op physiotherapy, a joint will likely be worse after surgery.
If simple physiotherapy is already too painful, cutting into this overexcited tissue risks inducing a complex regional pain syndrome.
If someone suffers from both depression and from too much pain to do physiotherapy, they need a multimodal pain therapy to prepare for surgery.
So, based on the bit of info you provided, refusing surgery was very likely the right thing to do to avoid worsening your mother’s situation. What I di hate is when doctors don’t explain themselves and just say “I can’t help you”, but do not point patients to someone who can.
I am down 50+ pounds, and have another 20 to go. This is new to me, but I absolutely agree with everything you said.
Congratulations, that’s really impressive!
You are ignorant of the genetic factors at play here and I think you need to realize that your rhetoric is identical to victim blaming eugenics ideology. You sound like RFK Jr. and I’m guessing you would want me dead if you could have things that way. It’s honestly despicable and I don’t know how people like you sleep at night.
Hear me out. You’re villainizing me because what I said struck a nerve. You don’t actually believe I want you dead. You’re just upset that I pointed out a deep flaw. Maybe it’s an insecurity, or cognitive dissonance, or whatever. I’m very familiar with this type of response. Whatever it is, realize that someone likely depends on you and that an unhealthy lifestyle is not good for them. I’m encouraging you to do better, if not for yourself, the people in your life you care for. I recognize my ignorance. I’m not a therapist. I’m just stating something I’ve personally observed.
Buddy, you’re over stating the importance of genetics. Time and time again it shows that getting bigger is more nurture than nature. Papers and research retounely come out saying its a two-sides of the same coin issue, but then fail to support their nature/genetics claims, which are often refuted. Slender families get children who end up obese because of lifestyle, and their children become obese. That’s not genetics. The grandchildren end up obese because obese parents place their lifestyle and diets onto their children.
Claiming something is victim blaming is insanely disrespectful to the people who actually get blamed for things out of their control. Your weight is in your control for the vast, VAST majority of people.
People with disabilities who can’t get an opportunity to do something about it? Sure. Can that disability come from genetics, sure. But that’s a small minority of people who are overweight.
And you sound like a moron. OP didn’t say anything and you said even less.
Used to see the odd “genetics” fat person and they’d just be built a bit bigger. Now I’m seeing fucking waddling planetoids and that’s not genetics man. Part of that blame belongs to individuals but part of it belongs to the food lobbyists and their quest to add sugar and corn syrup to everything.
Incentivise people to grow their own vegetables (or source them locally from those who already are) and disincentivise the purchase of processed and sweetened food. Have our agencies promote healthy recipes using weight rather than volume measurements and show people how to use scales to properly weigh ingredients and help make it as easy as possible to count calories.
I’m just sitting here waiting for the point of what you said. 60 people upvoted, but you didn’t say anything.
The phrase of the day (which you should Google of you downvote this) is pseudo-profound bullshit.
You count just say you disagree and explain why it upset you.
I think their point is that doctors don’t want their patients to become entrapped by obesity into lifelong poor health, which also traps them as sources of revenue for corporations that profit from sickness and fat: pharma, companies that sell fad diet and/or exercise plans, etc. So if your doctor tells you to lose weight, it’s probably coming from a good place, regardless of what else might be going on with your health.
(And just in anticipation of some replies I might get: yes, it’s absolutely a real and shitty thing when doctors only see the fat and assume it’s the cause of all the patient’s problems. You deserve better healthcare than that. But also recognize that while the fat might not be the cause of a given problem, it might be exacerbating that problem.)