Yearly property taxes never made sense to me. So you supposedly bought and own something, except if you don’t pay the government then they can just take it away.
Taxes are the price of civilization. You pay taxes on your land, because if you don’t, a gang of armed thugs will come and steal it from you and bury you under it.
In China 70% of the population pays no income tax, a very small sales tax, and there’s no property taxes at all. Who you tax is just as important as how much you tax. It is not necessary to tax everyone in a society to maintain a modern civilization.
That you can own the building, but the property is on a 75 year lease that can be extended two times for under a hundred dollars for a total of 225 years of that home being in your family for less than the cost of a single years property tax anywhere in the US?
I see your point for general taxes, but if the federal and state government are already taking your income and many other things how come they’re also taking so much in property tax? Many other countries seem to be able to protect you and give you what you need without property tax.
Because collecting only one type of taxes would cause massive economic distortion and would inevitably burden people unequally. Different taxes have different properties. Some hit certain groups harder than others. Some hit certain types of businesses harder than others. Far better to have a whole series of modest taxes than one form of ruinous taxation. Do some countries not have property taxes? Yes, but they’re small tax havens that aren’t really a good model for the vast majority of nations.
But as far as optimization, consider some examples.
Property taxes also work best at the local level because the spending needs of municipalities don’t swing heavily with economic conditions. The federal government has spending needs that vary wildly with the economic cycle. During a recession, the federal government needs to massively ramp up its spending. But at a local level, a recession doesn’t mean you suddenly need twice the number of firefighters. Property taxes are pretty steady over time, so they’re a good match for the needs of local government. The federal government’s income tax revenue goes down during a recession, but that’s ultimately fine, as the federal government controls the currency. They can afford to sustain massive deficits during bad years and make it up with surpluses in the good years. (Well, if the federal government was functioning as designed.)
Income taxes also make more sense for government entities whose jurisdictions are difficult to avoid. If you fund your city entirely with income tax and no property taxes, you may find your community completely overrun by retirees who want services like anyone else, but don’t actually earn much taxable income to pay for them. If you fund your city entirely through a large sales tax, people can just drive and shop outside of city limits. It’s much harder for people to avoid federal income tax simply by moving house. Unless you’re leaving the country entirely, you’re not avoiding the reach of federal income taxes. (And sometimes even that doesn’t cut it!)
But property taxes? The only way to avoid those is to not live in the city at all. Which, from the city’s perspective, is fine. If you don’t live in the city, then you’re not putting much burden on the city’s infrastructure and services. But if you want to live in the city and enjoy all the benefits that come with living in a city, you have to pay the city’s property taxes.
In short, different taxes have different properties, different benefits and drawbacks. Funding a society through a diverse arrangement of taxes allows much more efficient optimization of these taxes. It’s a much more intelligent system than just trying to fund it all with one big dumb tax of a single type. That’s more the way of Medieval head taxes, not modern nation states. We used to have simple tax systems. We stopped using them because we realized there were better ways to do it.
I suppose they haven’t. But they are planning on doing so. And their lack of a property tax is a major reason their cities struggle financially.
Also, the key context here is that land in China is technically owned by the state. It’s leased out on very long term ground leases, but it’s all still owned by the state. In principle, the government doesn’t need to add another property tax, as it’s already leasing out the land. It would be like if a landlord also charged property tax to their tenants.
I don’t know about where you live, but here the property taxes pay for the locality’s services: streets, parks, city employes salaries, snow removal, garbage removal, summer camp, community center, etc. So this taxe is very useful. Now, it needs to be well managed and it’s a whole other topic.
It’s depressing that we can never truly own even the land we live on. How many seniors lose it all over property taxes? FFS, we have auctions to rape these poor people.
I disagree, mostly due to i pay vehicle registration and tax when I buy it. VA does vehicle property tax, MD does not. How are they surviving?
update: so I just checked Virginia’s property tax rates and apparently we are one of the lowest in the country at like .76%. so maybe the vehicle property tax makes up for that since most states are just a bit under 1% at around .9. MD is higher, 1.02%
I think it would help if they called it something else also just to clear it up.
I’m surrounded by multimillion dollar homes and $100,000 cars on the road. Just feel like you’re getting fucked left and right all the time.
Yearly property taxes never made sense to me. So you supposedly bought and own something, except if you don’t pay the government then they can just take it away.
My property taxes, largely, go to support public schools.
I’m fine with that.
Doesn’t mean I should be exorbitantly overcharged.
Taxes are the price of civilization. You pay taxes on your land, because if you don’t, a gang of armed thugs will come and steal it from you and bury you under it.
In China 70% of the population pays no income tax, a very small sales tax, and there’s no property taxes at all. Who you tax is just as important as how much you tax. It is not necessary to tax everyone in a society to maintain a modern civilization.
Your leaving out a critical piece of information…
That you can own the building, but the property is on a 75 year lease that can be extended two times for under a hundred dollars for a total of 225 years of that home being in your family for less than the cost of a single years property tax anywhere in the US?
Uh, yeah, that was on the tip of my tongue. That’s exactly it.
I see your point for general taxes, but if the federal and state government are already taking your income and many other things how come they’re also taking so much in property tax? Many other countries seem to be able to protect you and give you what you need without property tax.
Because collecting only one type of taxes would cause massive economic distortion and would inevitably burden people unequally. Different taxes have different properties. Some hit certain groups harder than others. Some hit certain types of businesses harder than others. Far better to have a whole series of modest taxes than one form of ruinous taxation. Do some countries not have property taxes? Yes, but they’re small tax havens that aren’t really a good model for the vast majority of nations.
But as far as optimization, consider some examples.
Property taxes also work best at the local level because the spending needs of municipalities don’t swing heavily with economic conditions. The federal government has spending needs that vary wildly with the economic cycle. During a recession, the federal government needs to massively ramp up its spending. But at a local level, a recession doesn’t mean you suddenly need twice the number of firefighters. Property taxes are pretty steady over time, so they’re a good match for the needs of local government. The federal government’s income tax revenue goes down during a recession, but that’s ultimately fine, as the federal government controls the currency. They can afford to sustain massive deficits during bad years and make it up with surpluses in the good years. (Well, if the federal government was functioning as designed.)
Income taxes also make more sense for government entities whose jurisdictions are difficult to avoid. If you fund your city entirely with income tax and no property taxes, you may find your community completely overrun by retirees who want services like anyone else, but don’t actually earn much taxable income to pay for them. If you fund your city entirely through a large sales tax, people can just drive and shop outside of city limits. It’s much harder for people to avoid federal income tax simply by moving house. Unless you’re leaving the country entirely, you’re not avoiding the reach of federal income taxes. (And sometimes even that doesn’t cut it!)
But property taxes? The only way to avoid those is to not live in the city at all. Which, from the city’s perspective, is fine. If you don’t live in the city, then you’re not putting much burden on the city’s infrastructure and services. But if you want to live in the city and enjoy all the benefits that come with living in a city, you have to pay the city’s property taxes.
In short, different taxes have different properties, different benefits and drawbacks. Funding a society through a diverse arrangement of taxes allows much more efficient optimization of these taxes. It’s a much more intelligent system than just trying to fund it all with one big dumb tax of a single type. That’s more the way of Medieval head taxes, not modern nation states. We used to have simple tax systems. We stopped using them because we realized there were better ways to do it.
China is a small tax haven?
I suppose they haven’t. But they are planning on doing so. And their lack of a property tax is a major reason their cities struggle financially.
Also, the key context here is that land in China is technically owned by the state. It’s leased out on very long term ground leases, but it’s all still owned by the state. In principle, the government doesn’t need to add another property tax, as it’s already leasing out the land. It would be like if a landlord also charged property tax to their tenants.
Most modern nations have higher taxes especially on the rich
Lol
The alternative is banks hoarding real state without any need to rent it out or sell it soon. They can just wait until prices get higher.
That’s why in most countries people pay way less property taxes in the house they live in.
maybe there is a middle ground? tax for the 3rd owned land, and increasing for any additional ones?
I don’t know about where you live, but here the property taxes pay for the locality’s services: streets, parks, city employes salaries, snow removal, garbage removal, summer camp, community center, etc. So this taxe is very useful. Now, it needs to be well managed and it’s a whole other topic.
It’s depressing that we can never truly own even the land we live on. How many seniors lose it all over property taxes? FFS, we have auctions to rape these poor people.
House tax I understand, there is a finite limited of land.
Vehicle tax however can go fuck itself.
This is what is needed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_value_tax
Gotta maintain the roads somehow. Vehicle and gas taxes mean that only those using the are paying.
I disagree, mostly due to i pay vehicle registration and tax when I buy it. VA does vehicle property tax, MD does not. How are they surviving?
update: so I just checked Virginia’s property tax rates and apparently we are one of the lowest in the country at like .76%. so maybe the vehicle property tax makes up for that since most states are just a bit under 1% at around .9. MD is higher, 1.02%
I think it would help if they called it something else also just to clear it up.
I’m surrounded by multimillion dollar homes and $100,000 cars on the road. Just feel like you’re getting fucked left and right all the time.
then exactly that is what needs to go away, not vehicle tax, because this won’t fund road maintenance for however many years
The alternative is much higher income tax.