They don’t even really care about punishment, I’d say the real driver for the prison system is just the need for labor and the loophole of enslavement. Most of the plantations that were major holders of slaves are now prisons after all.
Lmao, my bad on not getting back to you, but the other feller’s link is pretty much a good summary. Adding a few though because that article doesn’t list which ones have undergone the evolution, lol.
Our government loves to use what it has in terms of resources for as close to free as it can manage. From a purely Machiavellian and pragmatic perspective, it’s sensible, even if it’s utterly reprehensible.
Okay, yeah, I knew about that. State pen where I grew up was a farm. The majority of plantations didn’t become prisons, it doesn’t take that many people to farm anymore. Modern farming is often a high skill job driving heavy equipment.
A few plantations became prisons, but the majority didn’t. Slavery is totally okay, by the constitution, for prisoners. Too bad they didn’t put in anything about rehabilitation.
When I said “major holders” I meant some of the Largest plantations were converted, rather than a majority of All plantations, sorry for not being clearer. I would agree that they genuinely don’t need as much labor due to ag-science development. However, I was also trying to convey what this map https://pudding.cool/2017/01/shape-of-slavery/ shows in words. The main theme of “which plantations” got converted mostly has to do with soil quality due to the Mississippi River delta over eons than it does with race or useful and efficient placement of reform facilities. Sorry for not thinking to go find the map yesterday, lol. (Also upon review this isn’t even the map I thought it was, though pertinent and I may add more, lol.)
Prisoners are legally allowed to be enslaved. Which is not great, even though I understand the motive. It’s been pretty well proven that punitive incarceration is bad for the individual and society. Remove punishment from the equation and slavery is not justifiable.
Most plantations continued to be farmland, some plantation houses still exist but wood maintenance in the south is a lot. Some of the old plantations overlap with prison farms. Most of the farm system has been shutdown as it isn’t economical.
Anyhow, yeah. The US has a huge incarcerated population, mostly black/Hispanic minorities, they are used for profit by enslavement.
Agreed, sorry, I couldn’t tell yesterday if you were pro-prison labor or didn’t have any exposure beyond personal regarding the oddity. I understand they can be kept for the purpose but wanted to give as much context for the shared aspects of the two issues i.e. plantations being converted and prisoners still legally being slaves in case you wanted to know more. Still glad to see productive discussions can still happen on the internet as I didn’t realize how many of the old plantation houses had gone the way of the dodo vis-a-vis maintenance issues, I appreciate the insight! I hope you have a good day!
No worries. I’ve become a real stickler for the facts when someone on the left is calling out the fascists. The shit they’re doing is plenty bad enough that there is no need to inflate or exaggerate anything. Lying about reality works for them but they’ve given us so much ammo we don’t have to fabricate anything.
We also can’t fall into the media hysteria like they did. The fear and anger is used to short circuit logic. We can’t let ourselves be manipulated like that.
IDK, I think it’s all our job to keep each other honest.
True as hell! I’ve been noticing the frenzied flock effect spawning misinfo here on the left and I appreciate you keeping me on form for it! Cause you’re right that I should have specified that I was critiquing the state of the law post-civil war, rather than anything the actual modern fascists are playing at.
True on the manipulation as well! Still, thank you again, and peace my friend!
They don’t even really care about punishment, I’d say the real driver for the prison system is just the need for labor and the loophole of enslavement. Most of the plantations that were major holders of slaves are now prisons after all.
I hate the prison industrial complex as much as the next guy, but, you gotta sauce on plantations to prisons?
Lmao, my bad on not getting back to you, but the other feller’s link is pretty much a good summary. Adding a few though because that article doesn’t list which ones have undergone the evolution, lol.
https://www.themarshallproject.org/2015/05/01/prison-plantations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_farm
https://daily.jstor.org/slavery-and-the-modern-day-prison-plantation/
https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2009/apr/15/slavery-haunts-americas-plantation-prisons-by-maya-schenwar/
https://www.texasobserver.org/texas-prison-plantations/
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/arts/5-ways-prisoners-were-used-for-profit-throughout-u-s-history
https://www.themarshallproject.org/2020/07/29/will-the-reckoning-over-racist-names-include-these-prisons
Our government loves to use what it has in terms of resources for as close to free as it can manage. From a purely Machiavellian and pragmatic perspective, it’s sensible, even if it’s utterly reprehensible.
Okay, yeah, I knew about that. State pen where I grew up was a farm. The majority of plantations didn’t become prisons, it doesn’t take that many people to farm anymore. Modern farming is often a high skill job driving heavy equipment.
A few plantations became prisons, but the majority didn’t. Slavery is totally okay, by the constitution, for prisoners. Too bad they didn’t put in anything about rehabilitation.
When I said “major holders” I meant some of the Largest plantations were converted, rather than a majority of All plantations, sorry for not being clearer. I would agree that they genuinely don’t need as much labor due to ag-science development. However, I was also trying to convey what this map https://pudding.cool/2017/01/shape-of-slavery/ shows in words. The main theme of “which plantations” got converted mostly has to do with soil quality due to the Mississippi River delta over eons than it does with race or useful and efficient placement of reform facilities. Sorry for not thinking to go find the map yesterday, lol. (Also upon review this isn’t even the map I thought it was, though pertinent and I may add more, lol.)
Prisoners are legally allowed to be enslaved. Which is not great, even though I understand the motive. It’s been pretty well proven that punitive incarceration is bad for the individual and society. Remove punishment from the equation and slavery is not justifiable.
Most plantations continued to be farmland, some plantation houses still exist but wood maintenance in the south is a lot. Some of the old plantations overlap with prison farms. Most of the farm system has been shutdown as it isn’t economical.
Anyhow, yeah. The US has a huge incarcerated population, mostly black/Hispanic minorities, they are used for profit by enslavement.
Agreed, sorry, I couldn’t tell yesterday if you were pro-prison labor or didn’t have any exposure beyond personal regarding the oddity. I understand they can be kept for the purpose but wanted to give as much context for the shared aspects of the two issues i.e. plantations being converted and prisoners still legally being slaves in case you wanted to know more. Still glad to see productive discussions can still happen on the internet as I didn’t realize how many of the old plantation houses had gone the way of the dodo vis-a-vis maintenance issues, I appreciate the insight! I hope you have a good day!
No worries. I’ve become a real stickler for the facts when someone on the left is calling out the fascists. The shit they’re doing is plenty bad enough that there is no need to inflate or exaggerate anything. Lying about reality works for them but they’ve given us so much ammo we don’t have to fabricate anything.
We also can’t fall into the media hysteria like they did. The fear and anger is used to short circuit logic. We can’t let ourselves be manipulated like that.
IDK, I think it’s all our job to keep each other honest.
True as hell! I’ve been noticing the frenzied flock effect spawning misinfo here on the left and I appreciate you keeping me on form for it! Cause you’re right that I should have specified that I was critiquing the state of the law post-civil war, rather than anything the actual modern fascists are playing at.
True on the manipulation as well! Still, thank you again, and peace my friend!
https://www.hbrucefranklin.com/articles/from-plantation-to-penitentiary-to-the-prison-industrial-complex-literature-of-the-american-prison/
This is from 2018.