President Donald Trump has signed a presidential memorandum deploying 2,000 National Guardsmen to disperse protests over immigration activity in the Los Angeles area, the White House said in a statement Saturday night.
There is no challenging the military as the citizenry. This is terrible advice.
What we should be doing is encouraging insubordination by service members. Why the fuck would you agree to use military force against your fellow Americans, on American soil? Not only is that unconstitutional, it’s simply not what you signed up for. Say no
Oh nah, I’m from the south. We’re all descendents of the British colonies at the end of the day though.
Rereading your comment, I can appreciate the irony. I guess I’m trying to talk my American friends out of aspiring toward the next civil war. I don’t think they realize just how good they have it despite the police crack downs. It’s what gives me some small hope if actually ordered to fire on civilians… They wouldn’t.
Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, and most of South America would disagree with you.
Anyway. GovCo can’t win anyway. Not even in open hot war. They don’t have the numbers.
Military and Natl Guard combined are less than 3,000,000 people. And that includes the logistics that makes it all work. They couldn’t handle Afghanistan and its <50,000,000 people.
You overestimate how willing people are to throw their bodies at the problem. Things have to be so bad that they expect to die anyway. Otherwise, your militia sign-ups will be limited to only those most brave, ideological, or stupid.
You also underestimate how much more effective military training and ordinances are among the US military vs militias. If they really wanted to mow down civilians, it would be fish in a barrel, even if everyone in the militia is armed.
This is why the hope is that US service men are committed to the constitution and not to Drumpf’s orders. It’s a thin hope.
They’re committed to the paycheck. Don’t be naive. Do you think American soldiers are uniquely unable to carry out atrocities? That sweet salty buttery baby jesus is gonna reach down, touch their hearts and make them defy orders? I’ll refer you to uh, the last 25 years of action in the middle east.
This empire is dying live on TV. And all of them so far have ended bloody. We won’t be the exception.
I did say it was a thin hope (well I said ‘thing’ but I’ve corrected it now).
But I think you give your service men too little credit. Even the police. How many fatalities or even serious injuries have actually occurred during protest activities? These a generally not people who want to kill anyone, particularly not their American brothers and sisters. But when one side dehumanizes the other, all bets are off. If things actually become life threatening, then everything changes. Kill or be killed.
I’m happy to be surprised. But I have set my expectations appropriately low.
I expect some inciting event over the summer. Someone gets killed by the feds and those protests really do turn into real riots. Then the clown prince will escalate. Open war by Christmas.
Like I said. I’m happy to be proven wrong. I would be delighted to be proven wrong. Maybe we’ll luck out and he’ll have a stroke mid ramble or maybe some general will shoot the bastard during his military parade. But I don’t think we’re that lucky.
Another possible is a general strike. That Union leader they black bagged earlier this week. He hasn’t been released yet. If they try to deport him on some trumped up bullshit that’s gonna have an apocalyptic backlash from basically every union except the police union.
Most states have a token State Guard that answers only to their governor, not the federal government. If Trump keeps this shit up, states are going to start disbanding their National Guard units, and shifting them into State control.
Except Trunp federalized the California National Guard, bypassing Newsome, that’s a pretty big problem. Newsome is suing Trunp. In the meantime - violence on citizens by cops and Trunp-allied forces continues.
Except Trunp federalized the California state force
No, he did not. He federalized the California National guard. The State Guard is a lesser-known organization that answers solely to the Governor. They cannot be federalized. Which is why we’re probably going to be seeing states putting more of their resources into their State Guards and less into their National Guard units.
As for the CA National Guard:
Article I, Section 8, Clause 16. The State retains the sole authority to appoint the officers of the Militia.
10 USC 246. The National Guard is the Militia.
Newsom has the authority to appoint the officers of the National Guard. Revoking the appointments of the Commissioned and Non-Commissioned officers of the California National Guard, he effectively disbands the organization.
Trump has no authority to override Newsom’s authority here.
There is no challenging the military as the citizenry. This is terrible advice.
What we should be doing is encouraging insubordination by service members. Why the fuck would you agree to use military force against your fellow Americans, on American soil? Not only is that unconstitutional, it’s simply not what you signed up for. Say no
Says someone from the nation that mainly loses military conflicts with the citizenry…
Where do you think I’m from?
Based on your statement referencing the constitution I would say the states, but if I am mistaken then I apologize.
Oh nah, I’m from the south. We’re all descendents of the British colonies at the end of the day though.
Rereading your comment, I can appreciate the irony. I guess I’m trying to talk my American friends out of aspiring toward the next civil war. I don’t think they realize just how good they have it despite the police crack downs. It’s what gives me some small hope if actually ordered to fire on civilians… They wouldn’t.
Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, and most of South America would disagree with you.
Anyway. GovCo can’t win anyway. Not even in open hot war. They don’t have the numbers.
Military and Natl Guard combined are less than 3,000,000 people. And that includes the logistics that makes it all work. They couldn’t handle Afghanistan and its <50,000,000 people.
You overestimate how willing people are to throw their bodies at the problem. Things have to be so bad that they expect to die anyway. Otherwise, your militia sign-ups will be limited to only those most brave, ideological, or stupid.
You also underestimate how much more effective military training and ordinances are among the US military vs militias. If they really wanted to mow down civilians, it would be fish in a barrel, even if everyone in the militia is armed.
This is why the hope is that US service men are committed to the constitution and not to Drumpf’s orders. It’s a thin hope.
They’re committed to the paycheck. Don’t be naive. Do you think American soldiers are uniquely unable to carry out atrocities? That sweet salty buttery baby jesus is gonna reach down, touch their hearts and make them defy orders? I’ll refer you to uh, the last 25 years of action in the middle east.
This empire is dying live on TV. And all of them so far have ended bloody. We won’t be the exception.
I did say it was a thin hope (well I said ‘thing’ but I’ve corrected it now).
But I think you give your service men too little credit. Even the police. How many fatalities or even serious injuries have actually occurred during protest activities? These a generally not people who want to kill anyone, particularly not their American brothers and sisters. But when one side dehumanizes the other, all bets are off. If things actually become life threatening, then everything changes. Kill or be killed.
I’m happy to be surprised. But I have set my expectations appropriately low.
I expect some inciting event over the summer. Someone gets killed by the feds and those protests really do turn into real riots. Then the clown prince will escalate. Open war by Christmas.
Like I said. I’m happy to be proven wrong. I would be delighted to be proven wrong. Maybe we’ll luck out and he’ll have a stroke mid ramble or maybe some general will shoot the bastard during his military parade. But I don’t think we’re that lucky.
Another possible is a general strike. That Union leader they black bagged earlier this week. He hasn’t been released yet. If they try to deport him on some trumped up bullshit that’s gonna have an apocalyptic backlash from basically every union except the police union.
Most states have a token State Guard that answers only to their governor, not the federal government. If Trump keeps this shit up, states are going to start disbanding their National Guard units, and shifting them into State control.
Except Trunp federalized the California National Guard, bypassing Newsome, that’s a pretty big problem. Newsome is suing Trunp. In the meantime - violence on citizens by cops and Trunp-allied forces continues.
No, he did not. He federalized the California National guard. The State Guard is a lesser-known organization that answers solely to the Governor. They cannot be federalized. Which is why we’re probably going to be seeing states putting more of their resources into their State Guards and less into their National Guard units.
As for the CA National Guard: Article I, Section 8, Clause 16. The State retains the sole authority to appoint the officers of the Militia.
10 USC 246. The National Guard is the Militia.
Newsom has the authority to appoint the officers of the National Guard. Revoking the appointments of the Commissioned and Non-Commissioned officers of the California National Guard, he effectively disbands the organization.
Trump has no authority to override Newsom’s authority here.
Edited to correct.
yeah. not with that attitude.