Marci Shore made news around the world when her family moved to Canada. She discusses Trump, teaching history and how terror atomises society

She finds the whole idea absurd. To Prof Marci Shore, the notion that the Guardian, or anyone else, should want to interview her about the future of the US is ridiculous. She’s an academic specialising in the history and culture of eastern Europe and describes herself as a “Slavicist”, yet here she is, suddenly besieged by international journalists keen to ask about the country in which she insists she has no expertise: her own. “It’s kind of baffling,” she says.

In fact, the explanation is simple enough. Last month, Shore, together with her husband and fellow scholar of European history, Timothy Snyder, and the academic Jason Stanley, made news around the world when they announced that they were moving from Yale University in the US to the University of Toronto in Canada. It was not the move itself so much as their motive that garnered attention. As the headline of a short video op-ed the trio made for the New York Times put it, “We Study Fascism, and We’re Leaving the US”.

Starkly, Shore invoked the ultimate warning from history. “The lesson of 1933 is: you get out sooner rather than later.” She seemed to be saying that what had happened then, in Germany, could happen now, in Donald Trump’s America – and that anyone tempted to accuse her of hyperbole or alarmism was making a mistake. “My colleagues and friends, they were walking around and saying, ‘We have checks and balances. So let’s inhale, checks and balances, exhale, checks and balances.’ I thought, my God, we’re like people on the Titanic saying, ‘Our ship can’t sink. We’ve got the best ship. We’ve got the strongest ship. We’ve got the biggest ship.’ And what you know as a historian is that there is no such thing as a ship that can’t sink.”

  • @MintyFresh@lemmy.world
    123•4 days ago

    That’s a shit lesson to take from 33. My takeaway is don’t let the brown shirts win. I’m not running from my country with my tail between my legs.

    Fascists can fuck off, in fact 70 7 millions just assembled to say just that.

    Edit: I didn’t think staying in my country of birth and fighting for freedom and decency would be such a hot button issue.

    To all of you who felt the need to be condescending I’d just say tighten up and show some backbone. Real disappointing. So you may be shot and sent to a gulag. You wouldn’t be the first, probably not the last. Try not to let fear and righteousness dictate your feelings.

    • @cannedtuna@lemmy.world
      48•4 days ago

      Not sure where your getting that 70 million number, but according to Wikipedia it was some 5 million.

      Not to criticize, but I think it’s important not to spread inaccuracies and over inflate turnout numbers like a certain someone likes to do.

      Edit: Lemmy post with final count numbers on attendance. Looks like it’s a bit larger than initially thought, which is fantastic!

      • @kn33@lemmy.worldEnglish
        19•4 days ago

        Another takeaway from that article: 7 of the top 10 were during Trump’s presidency.

        • @phdepressed@sh.itjust.works
          5•4 days ago

          Depends on source.

          Need about 11M to reach the supposed 3.5% “rule” which is near what 50501 was self-reporting.

          Traditional media was reporting 5M to start and has slowly added more.

    • @TotallynotJessica@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
      34•4 days ago

      The brown shirts have the keys to the kingdom, and so there’s no easy way to get rid of them. By my count they’ve already won, and will be able to do a depressing amount of damage before anyone could hope to stop them. If you’re a vulnerable group who has the opportunity to leave and isn’t ready to die fighting, leaving is the safest bet.

    • @barneypiccolo@lemm.eeEnglish
      30•4 days ago

      The Nazis did eventually lose, but look what it took to do it. Millions of people died on both sides. The best defense is to not allow them any power, but they already control the most powerful military in the history of the world.

      At this point, leaving is a credible option, if you have it. Unfortunately, unless you are wealthy, have a large business, or are incredibly intelligent in a field they want, most of us won’t be welcome any where else.

    • @katze@lemmy.cafeEnglish
      25•4 days ago

      I’m not running from my country with my tail between my legs.

      That sounds cool if your objective is to collect likes on social media. However, her objective is to save herself and her family from what’s coming. As “an academic specialising in the history and culture of eastern Europe,” she knows very well what it is. Only an ignorant and arrogant prick could say what you said.

      • @rabber@lemmy.caEnglish
        5•4 days ago

        If all the good guys leave then you lose your country though

        What if everyone just left Poland during ww2? There wouldn’t be a Poland today

        • @yetAnotherUser@discuss.tchncs.de
          15•4 days ago

          Nah, the Polish resistance was slaughtered by the Soviets anyways:

          Most soldiers of the Home Army (including those who took part in the Warsaw Uprising) were persecuted after the war; captured by the NKVD or UB political police. They were interrogated and imprisoned on various charges, such as that of fascism.[226][227] Many of them were sent to Gulags, executed or disappeared.

          Wikipedia

          Poland remained occupied for 45 years after WW2 and was forcibly “shifted” to the West causing millions of Polish people to be deported from their homes in the East.

          The best decision any Pole could have made for themselves, their family and even their country was to flee. You won’t do anything for Poland if you die as a slave in Siberia.

    • NoneOfUrBusiness
      14•4 days ago

      I mean that’s certainly fair, but with the vast majority of America either supporting the fascists or dragging its feet (cue “we can’t give them an excuse to do a fascism!!!”) “fuck this shit I’m outta here” is, honestly, pretty valid.

    • @Harlehatschi@lemmy.ml
      11•4 days ago

      But going peacefully on the streets is only successful if the government you want to send a message to is listening, i.e. if it either cares for their citizens or is in any way rational.

      I hope I’m wrong here, but I can’t see anything changing for the better in your country. It currently looks like 70 million people trying to talk through a knife fight.

      • @Demdaru@lemmy.world
        5•4 days ago

        Eh, Trump’s stupid enough to openly oppose peaceful protest. And Americans seem to have a reaaaally short fuse when someone physically spits them in the face.

        Soon, they won’t be so peaceful.

        • @Harlehatschi@lemmy.ml
          5•4 days ago

          I had this hope too, but he already went light-years too far and all I read is “soon …”.

          I’m generally against violence, but I really hope you guys do something over there…

    • AizawaC47
      5•4 days ago

      From the numbers that I have seen spread through social media, they were saying 12.1 million people showed up for the No King protest.

    • @PerogiBoi@lemmy.ca
      2•4 days ago

      Your usage of “70 million” is a cope just like her “checks and balances”. There was nowhere near that amount of people. Not even 10 million. The protests were largely cancelled because of the political assassination.

      I looked for photos of protests and the ones I saw did not have anywhere near these amounts of people. A few hundred to a couple thousand at any one city. America is very okay with fascism.