• Eugene V. Debs' Ghost
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    244 days ago

    If conflict escalates with an armed vigilante uprising, it will be used by Trump to justify everything the military does, which will include live rounds on civilian targets. An armed militia cannot compete with the military.

    News flash, the peaceful, non-violent protest were already justification for Trump using the National Guard and Marines.

    • @ynthrepic@lemmy.world
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      44 days ago

      So what? It’s all performative at the moment precisely because the citizenry are not armed. His actions are clearly illegal even without a citizen having been shot yet. It needs to stay that way or you really will have a civil war on your hands. Is that really what you want?

      • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost
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        134 days ago

        It’s not what we want, it’s whats happening.

        Normal stable countries don’t have states that float the idea of stopping funding to the federal government, consider suspending habeas corpus to make arresting people easier, and deport non-whites en masse to concentration camps.

        Sticking your head in the sand and complying in advance doesn’t work because it assumes governments have a conscience that will learn from mistakes and guilt. It even considers this is a mistake. This is entirely on purpose.

        • @ynthrepic@lemmy.world
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          4 days ago

          This is illustrative of your whole problem over there though - the solution to crap government is better government, not regression to fuedalism. Peaceful protest is not “sticking your head in the sand” - it’s putting yourself in real danger given what Trump and the federal military are currently doing. But everyone standing across the line with a gun in their hand is a human being. The moment you arm the mob, the military has a mandate to engage and they will be far less sympathetic to the plight of the citizenry. Armed resistance, or any kind of violent resistance whatsoever, should be the absolute last resort.

          • @kuhli@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            64 days ago

            Armed resistance, or any kind of violent resistance whatsoever, should be the absolute last resort.

            I don’t think anyone here is arguing against this, we’re just saying it’s time to be prepared for if that time comes because we won’t be given advanced notice.

            We have a government controlled by people dedicated to consolidating their power and ensuring they won’t be opposed. Unidentifiable armed thugs are grabbing people off the street and shipping them to torture camps.

            I sincerely hope this can be resolved peacefully, but the reality of the situation is we have to be prepared for if it can’t be.

            Obviously don’t fire the first shot; but if they do, it needs to be met with a shot back.

            • @ynthrepic@lemmy.world
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              14 days ago

              Obviously don’t fire the first shot; but if they do, it needs to be met with a shot back.

              By whom and in what context?

          • @traceur301@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            44 days ago

            Relying on their sympathy, and the hope to replace them with a better government without using force, are absolute folly. They’re fascists; making those things not forthcoming is like their whole schtick. Small arms won’t defeat them in battle, but guns can make occupation almost infinitely more costly for fascists to maintain compared to willful docility

            • @ynthrepic@lemmy.world
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              4 days ago

              Are you really saying US citizens matyring themselves by provoking armed crackdowns by the military is more reliable than peaceful protest? Because that’s what it sounds like you’re saying.

              There is no “battle” right now. There is no civil war yet. What you’re saying is the kind of behavior that will start it.

              • @traceur301@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                64 days ago

                What you’re saying is the kind of behavior that results in Nazi Germany and extermination camps. At this point I can only assume you’re trying to goad non-fascists into bannable speech

                • @ynthrepic@lemmy.world
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                  13 days ago

                  I’m saying you armed Joe citizen can’t win an armed conflict against the military. That’s all.

                  Victory worth having has to be won through peaceful civil disobedience, or there’s a very good chance a lot of people will die for nothing.

                  I’d like to hear arguments to the contrary, but so far it’s crickets.

      • They are being shot at. Injuries requiring hospitalization with a chance for permanent disability isn’t “performative.” I can hope but can not trust enough people remain in the police and national guard who are willing to prevent escalation.

        Source 1 of many: https://abc7.com/post/protester-marshall-woodruff-shot-eye-rubber-bullet-during-no-kings-day-rally-downtown-los-angeles-saturday/16768659/

        As to civil war, I lived in a place where multiple people were hopeful for civil war to start and another place where my high school teacher joked on Facebook about open season on liberals and needing bodybags. I feel a need to prepare for the scum around me, since several are already impersonating ICE officers or killing people.

        • @ynthrepic@lemmy.world
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          23 days ago

          I have no concerns about defending yourself in your own home or even your neighborhood if it comes to door to door mob on mob like that.