Summary
El Salvador ended 2024 with a record low 114 homicides, equivalent to 1.9 per 100,000 people, making it the safest country in the Western Hemisphere according to President Nayib Bukele.
The drop follows two years under a state of emergency aimed at eradicating gang violence, granting authorities sweeping powers but limiting civil rights.
Over 83,000 arrests have been made, though 354 detainees reportedly died in custody.
While criticized for human rights violations, Bukele’s crackdown has drastically improved security, boosting his popularity.
Easy when you toss people into a pit without due process. I wonder what the percentage is of innocent people rotting in those inhumane prisons they built. Not to mention that those prisons and form of justice will eventually be turned towards the next batch of “undesirables” in no time. Including his political opponents. This president can wear a backwards hat and act like he’s a man of the people, but he’s a wealthy nepo oligarch.
Edit: you’re a fool if you think this guy isn’t hiding the real numbers
He could be hiding the numbers, but the drop is near an order of magnitude from the peak.
Killings by police officers per 10 million population:
- United Kingdom - 0.5
- France - 5.5
- Canada - 18.6
- United States - 33
- El Salvador - 1703.8
El Salvador: 1829.9
That’s number is Venezuela’s. El Salvador is 1703.8. Note the data is from 2017, 2 years before Bukele became president.
Thank you for the correction, much appreciated.
And yes, I am aware that it’s older data, but given that Bukele’s moves as president have consisted entirely of even harsher policing, I sincerely doubt that that number has gone lower.
Could it be that that number came from active warfare with the gangs (which have now been neutered)?
Syria’s numbers are literally from an active civil war, and they’re half of El Salvador’s.
So no, I don’t really feel like that holds water as a justification. Valid as context, yes, but there’s still no good reason for the number to be that high.
Also “Our country is really peaceful now that we’ve run out of people for cops to kill” doesn’t exactly sound like a paradise to me.
Yes, it’s why Bukele is popular. But we shouldn’t be holding it up as something to emulate.
Syria’s numbers are literally from an active civil war
Doesn’t that make their numbers immediately questionable? Especially since what level of policing do you even have during a civil war
Afaik the USA does not release official statistics for this because individual police precincts refuse to cooperate.
Oh brother… so, what do you suggest? Go back to the old ways? How about we ask the majority of Salvadorians what they think?
“How about we ask the majority of Salvadorians what they think?”
When you say “the majority of Salvadorioans” are you including those who are currently imprisoned? If not, then it’s just a matter of imprisoning everyone who disagrees with those in charge…
“are you including those imprisoned” oh brother…spotted the liberal.
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I have to wonder what their suicide rate is like, though.
From a Terry Pratchett book:
Murder was in fact a fairly uncommon event in Ankh-Morpork, but there were a lot of suicides. Walking in the night-time alleyways of The Shades was suicide. Asking for a short in a dwarf bar was suicide. Saying “Got rocks in your head?” to a troll was suicide. You could commit suicide very easily, if you weren’t careful.
are there enough people left outside of the salvadoran prison system to even engage in war? lol
On the one hand, Bukele is basically installing an authoritarian dictatorship here, so can we even trust these numbers? And the real big fish criminals are probably in cahoots with the regime. And of course people are getting eaten up by an inhumane, classist system that is producing a lost generation. So fuck all that.
On the other hand however, the previous situation was indeed unlivable. It was like living in the purge every day, with people living under the thumb of petty gangsters. And I’m really struggling to come up with an example of a nation coming back from this kind of collapse without some kind of Terror, in the Jacobin sense.
Like, sometimes a state of exception, a state of emergency is actually justified, and the state needs to re-establish the monopoly on violence. If Claudia Sheinbaum went Bukele against the Cartels in the north for example, would she really not be justified?
definitely numbers to take with a grain of salt. but by accounts from people living there, the difference is noticable even if it’s not as high as what the government says. even tourism has had a huge uptick because people actually feel pretty safe going there now.
You can’t make an omelet without cracking a few eggs
you can’t make a tomlette without cracking a few Greggs
Without eggs a few cracking an omelette can’t make you
In case you were wondering like I was:
A new report from the FBI shows that the U.S. homicide rate has come down from its pandemic peak. In 2022, the government agency counted 6.3 homicides per 100,000 of U.S. population, down from 6.8 in 2021 - the equivalent of a fall of around 6 percent.
https://www.statista.com/chart/31062/us-homicide-rate/
I live in a fucking third world country. Hopefully not for much longer.
By definition, if you live in the US, you live a country from the “first world” bloc (ie. The western bloc)
Please stop using the term “third world” to mean poor country
Seems like an insulting term is the perfect one to use for America.
Just say shithole.
Not specific enough.
Edit: How about “failed state?”
“State failed successfuly”
Not when it’s factually incorrect. There’s plenty of things wrong with America, no need to call it something it isn’t.
All Salvadorians I hear from say they are happy with the situation.
Selection bias no? You’re not exactly going to hear from the innocent person stuck in a jail without representation or due process.
Can’t really fault them. Not like it was the safest place to live before he became dictator
Please, tell us all how El Salvador should do it? Go back to the old ways?
“security”, as long as you won’t get arrested and imprisoned without a trial, because of a vague suspicion because you entered a shop which got robbed 3 hours ago and you just came there to buy some cheese. Ah well, better 10 innocent imprisoned than 1 guilty in the streets, right? Oh no, it’s El Salvador, Better 100 innocent imprisoned than 1 guilty in the street. Better safe then sorry!
So, go back to how it was before? Is that what you’re saying? There’s either this way, or the way it was before. Ask the people of El Salvador what they prefer.
I wonder if this is a bit of a false dichotomy. I don’t think you’ll find anybody that wants it “back how it was before”, but rather how it is going now but without all the collateral damage and arrests of innocent people.
That’s the thing. The reason El Salvador was so effective in eliminating crime is because they don’t care about imprisoning innocent people.
You can’t have the effectiveness without the collateral damage.
Which one is preferable? I don’t know. But you can’t eat the cake and have it too.
“Ask the people of El Salvador what they prefer.”
When you say “People of El Salvador” are you including those who are currently imprisoned? If not, then it’s just a matter of imprisoning everyone who disagrees with those in charge…
Good.
Say that to the innocents in those prisons without due process
What do you think should have been done instead?
Ditch the USD and kick out the colonizers… Too bad it’s also a recipe for imperial invasion.
(Nobody has been laughing about their buying bitcoin lately…)
As much as I feel for innocent’s, the situation in El Salvador was bad: https://images.app.goo.gl/WWrXq7TXQWvqnuaV8
I feel like as harsh and authoritarian as Bulakes plan has been - ignoring mass violence on your people impacts a much greater magnitude of innocenta
Gotta raise up education and society at large though, can’t just toss everyone in jail
Well, if anything, Bukele actually could and did toss everyone in jail.
Only people on the Left, hardcore liberals are complaining about the job he’s doing. Because you know, low life scum criminals deserve to be treated with dignity.
