seeing alot of transphobia in the comments, light and probably accidental but yes deadnaming caitlyn is transphobia even if she fucking sucks.
it shows the trans people here that your acceptance is conditional on us agreeing with you.
you can call her out for her bs without deadnaming her
The reply to her tweet is on point, though. Any more deadnaming is just deadnaming.
Anyway, I would gladly provide her with HRT and send her to a labor camp as an enemy of the people.
Oh noes, the target of the insult is insulted in a way the target would not approve. It’s like the insult is meant to inflict abuse on the target. Logic circuits breaking down. What will society do?
Insult Caitlin Jenner about everything else she’s a horrible person about. She killed a person, she supports a fascist, she’s an adultular, a narcissist, was on the Kardashians, seriously take your pick. I could talk trash about Caitlin Jenner for a long time without ever bringing up her transition. I don’t need to be transphobic to “inflict abuse”.
The reason people are pin pointing her transition is because she’s actively advocating for a world in which she is deadnamed. She is asking for it, it is mean to show her again how it feels and how stupid she is.
Sure you don’t need to if abuse is the only goal. It’s a weird boundary to set for abusive language specifically disparaging that quality of their identity to call out the conflict with their support for a person whose policies are hostile to that identity. Do you know insults aren’t good?
she supports a fascist, she’s an adultular, a narcissist
First, adultular? Second, that’s exactly what they’re doing & who they’re proudly supporting: restating what they’re shameless about isn’t much of an insult to the subject as it fails to demean & offend.
was on the Kardashians
Do you understand the concept of insult? They’re unkind.
is conditional on us agreeing with you.
Not exactly. If anything it’s conditional on you not selling your allies/kin down the river.
Except that by misgendering her you’re causing harm to the trans community as a whole. We don’t misgender cisgender people when they are bad people. Misgendering transgender people who do bad things only shows that respecting transgender identity is conditional and can be revoked by other people. It’s not. It’s who we are. Even if someone is a trash fire human being they still should be gendered correctly.
Transphobes will read comments misgendering or deadnaming Caitlyn and cheer along. There are far, far better ways to vocalize disapproval of her. Ways that don’t hurt other trans people.
We don’t misgender cisgender people when they are bad people.
We don’t? I could have sworn cisgender people do that to insult each other all the time. It’s like a classic insult.
Discussing acceptable insults, while technically possible, seems somewhat irrational. The concept of an ethical insult doesn’t make total sense.
It all boils down to the very common phenomenon of thinking certain people, “bad people,” are worthy of any form of attack available.
I appreciate your point. A few months ago I was in a discussion with someone on Lemmy about the strategy of maliciously complying with someone that has insincerely stated a preference for neo-pronouns. The example in the discussion was Elon Musk claiming “prosecute/Fauci” as pronouns, but insincere pronouns aren’t necessarily so easily spotted. (My position was and is that it’s okay to maliciously comply with someone’s professed pronouns to demonstrate that person’s insincerity)
If you’re not tired of tutoring ignorant allies I’d really appreciate your opinion on that dilemma.
The concept is that normalizing dead naming as an insult will result in a cascading effect that harms trans people across the board, right? I’m not trans, but it should be pretty obvious - dead naming is dead naming even if you’re a piece of shit liar.
Rights for one are rights for all. Even elmo
ßtop saying that. That’s a pile of shit. BRUCE is the problem, not your allies.
I’m not disagreeing on morality of misgendering. I’m disagreeing that the misgendering is conditional on agreement.
I don’t want to sound mean with this I’m sure you mean the best but this isn’t a debate
Deadnaming and/or misgendering someone purposefully is transphobia and doing it because they’re a bad person is still transphobia
As a trans person I’m saying that if you are transphobic to someone even if they’re bad is conditional acceptance whether you mean it that way or not
People were deadnaming her in the comments, that’s transphobia not an opinion
Deadnaming and/or misgendering someone purposefully is transphobia
This is not what I am disagreeing with you on. I am in full agreement here.
and doing it because they’re a bad person is still transphobia
Im disagreeing on this point. It isn’t simply because they’re a bad person.
People were deadnaming her in the comments, that’s transphobia not an opinion
Agreed
What’s the difference between transphobia and bigotry?
I think you might mean bigotry, albeit a very specific kind.
I think you might mean bigotry, albeit a very specific kind.
Yes, and that very specific kind of bigotry is called transphobia…
I thought the “phobia” part was relevant but in looking up definitions of transphobia and homophobia I see that, etymologically, the phobia part seems to be irrelevant. TIL!
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I feel like accepting a trans person is, in fact, conditional on their support for other trans people. Like, it doesn’t have to be their whole personality, but full-throatedly supporting the anti-trans administration is the exact opposite of supporting the trans community.
The problem with that, again, is that you are outing that you won’t support trans people you disagree with. You can respect Caitlyn’s gender identity and chosen name while still calling her a bloody numpty.
transphobia
Well I mean, all of the trans communities are on an instance with downvotes disabled for a reason. This place is ‘left wing’ when it comes to Trump but when it comes to LGBTQ+ issues, feminism or even discussion about religion, I have my doubts about how ‘left wing’ people here really are.
This is, quite literally, same as Jews for Hitler -movement in pre-The War Germany. There are shades of grey in everything, and everyone. You can be bad or the side of bad people, even if you are a minority.
I agree. Looking through the comments, I’m getting that “crabs fighting in the pot, pulling the others back in” vibe. We elevate society by being better. Period. Not being better if.
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Yo Google is not doing its part, alert the authority or your citizenship may be at risk.
TIL she’s 75.
Obviously she’s had some work done, but goddamn that is a lot of work.
I mean…yes?
I just wasn’t expecting a full plastic person! And I suppose they do say estrogen supplements are good for the skin.
Plus being a professional track and field star makes for a great foundation into the later years.
Ugh that’s disgusting, I sent a report to Google that his Name is Bruce.
Leopards ate her face.
She’ll be against the wall still singing Trump’s praises
Everyone in this Turkish kebab shop I’m in is now staring at me for cracking up laughing uncontrollably, cheers 👍
How much does it suck to be the one guy that didn’t wear his helmet to work that day?
Or worse, he did wear a helmet but it was destroyed in the first leopard attack.
The first leopard attack was just over 4 years ago, tho. You’d think they would get new/better helmets in the meantime
Serves him well for taunting a fully-grown leopard with “psss… psss… psss…”
And take away your passport.
Hot take: she came out as trans to cover up the story of her hitting and killing someone with her car
maybe. maybe not. In the end not for us to decide.
But tbh, if that were the case, she wouldn’t have “stuck to the act” for so long.
I’m not saying she’s not trans I just think it’s convenient. Like Kevin spacey coming out as gay, right as the allegations happen
oh, absolutely great timing to dilute the news, agreed
She was trans but came out to play for sympathy, just like Kevin spacey coming out as gay right as he was accused of being a rapist
Yeah, maybe she came out when she did for that reason, but nobody has ever pretended to be trans and gone through years of HRT and surgery.
Buckle up buckaroos.
Blatant transphobia here. Caitlyn Jenner is a horrible person but transphobic attacks help nobody
Nothing about my statement is attacking her as a trans person. Shes still trans and was planning to come out. She came out as trans to dilute the news when she KILLED SOMEONE.
take a step back and really read what I stated.
Questioning a trans person’s motives to come out is transphobic
I’m not doing this, don’t be a troll. Go touch grass
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They Still Call Me Bruce Part II: Transgender Boogaloo
This is gonna be one of those ‘oh, my transition was done during the previous administration, so THIS administrations rules rules don’t apply to me’ cases.
Is her case grandfathered in, or grandmothered in 🤔?
Man, this is some nice word play
was my fav game growing up.
Was mental gymnastics included as a sport?
I know she deserves everything bad coming her way but this is still just transphobia…
How so? They’re not calling her Bruce, they’re stating the fact that the person that she’s worshipping decreed that she legally has to be called by her birth name, Bruce.
Not sure how pointing out someone acting like Uncle Ruckus is transphobic. Is it antisemitic to point out that Jewish members were the first group purged from the Nazi party?
No it’s pointing out the absurdity and hypocrisy of somebody who is trans praising and sucking up to the guy who is passing ton of anti-trans laws.
It’s like being black and sending a shout-out with praise to a KKK leader.
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*NazYe
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I’m genuinely curious, what about it comes across as transphobia to you?
not OP, but I’m in two minds about it. I don’t really care to step in on caitlyn’s behalf, she can kick rocks for all I care. and I don’t think the intent of the post was hateful, but whenever a trans person does something bad and newsworthy, deadnames start to come out and even if it’s directed at someone I actively despise it still sucks to read. revoking someone’s chosen name out of personal disgust is just something we deal with irl a lot. it’s a similar kind of ick as when a female politician does something reprehensible and the discourse gets flooded by a bunch of people crudely commenting on her appearance.
eta: with a very minor change this same exact point could be made without deadnaming her, so to me it’s uncomfortable and unnecessary.
Yeah this is exactly how I feel and why I didn’t really wanna argue about this further, she’s the last person I’d wanna defend but I still felt like it should be pointed out.
revoking someone’s chosen name out of personal disgust
The tweet does not call Caitlyn Bruce, it’s telling Caitlyn than the president ordered the government to call her Bruce.
Mentioning a deadname is not the same as deadnaming, this is not like saying “Jehovah” or something. I understand that just bringing up someone’s deadname can be jarring to at least a portion of trans people but, like, that’s the point here. Shock her into realising what’s being done to, also, her.
Instead of properly debating the issue at hand (the sanity of this schizo), commenters fight on whenever or not she’s getting misgendered in the comments. Never change Lemmy
We’ve spent the whole slide into fascism arguing with eachother about whether or not it was okay to use the word fascism instead of fighting the fascists.
Yeah… Unfortunately that fight on the word fascists ruined a lot of countries and it still does. Take for example Romanian elections.
well the thing is, when words mean things, it takes longer. And people tend to lose patience fairly quickly.
Thank you to you patient people out there.
What is she referring to?
these two are the same person, formerly called “Bruce JENNER”, now called “Caitlyn JENNER”
I meant what Caitlyn was referring to.
Ah, you mean the imaginary all powerfull being telling you not to eat shellfish?
Red tide warning.
This was when Trump entered the office a few weeks ago.
Him being appointed dictator last month.
If this post doesn’t get deleted, I’m gone. This just shows again that lemmy.world is filled with transphobes and that the mods endorse them. I will look for an instance that doesn’t federate with them.
I am very confused by your comment.
The picture shows a post by a trans person praising donald trump.
And a response to that post pointing out that trump is transphobic.
But you saw this and decided that its the people of lemmy world who are this transphobes?
How is this post not a pro trans post? By opposing trumps anti trans executive order and pointing that out to a trans person who supports trump, you are damaging trump, not the trans person.
People can be trans and also fucking idiots at the same time. Its not transphobic to think a specific trans person is being dumb.
.ml bot moment i think
It’s the lemmy people dogpiling and continuing the deadnaming after the point in the tweet has already been made. Yes Caitlyn Jenner is a moron who aligned herself with transphobic fascists who have legally mandated she be called by her deadname. Continuing to deadname her after the point is made is just additional cruelty on top without any additional benefit
Speaking more meta though, I fully understand the anger coming from people more to the left of Republicans, cruelty has won the Judiciary, congress and the presidency, cruelty has been an effective political strategy for republicans and a lot of people are angry and scared.
If finding irony in a situation is transphobic I guess you’ll have a hard time on social media in general. Have you tried gardening? And I suggest you don’t announce your departure either, this isn’t a train station.
Finding the irony of a trans person cheering on a transphobic fascist isn’t transphobic, continuing to deadname (something transphobes do for the sake of cruelty) after the irony has been pointed out is transphobic.
Yes she’s a dumbass who supports a man who is legally requiring her to be deadnamed. If you follow continue to follow the laws of a fascist to hurt minorities, congratulations you’re still following the laws of a fascist to hurt minorities.
Call her a dumbass, point out that the law as written requires people to call her by her deadname, point out that she won’t be immune to fascist consequences when Republicans do come for trans people, don’t continue to deadname just because someone else already pointed out irony.
Is mentioning the name in a conversation deadnaming?
Because in my mind there is a difference between “trump said we have to call you bruce” and “hey bruce, guess what trump said”, but it might not be the same for the people who disagree with my argumentYes there is a difference between “trump said I have to call you bruce” which is what the original post is, but the people in the comments posting photos of the Bruce Jenner decathlon board game, or referring to her as “Mr Bruce that is” or making a fake book title “they still call me Bruce II: electric boogaloo” are where the transphobia is setting in.
Yes she’s a dumbass, yes she is cheering on the leopards eating her face, yes those leopards are going after trans people, but that doesn’t mean we get to act the same way transphobes do to insult and dehumanize trans people no matter how much we disagree with the trans person. Attack their ideas and their dumbassery, not their identity.
I agree, and I haven’t seen many people doing that on this thread, so calling out the totality of lemmy.world users as “unmoderated transphobes” as the parent comment tries to do is forced and useless.
I’ll go a step further and say that this kind of behaviour detracts from the main cause of trans rights, which many of the people here stand behind. Because if you call me a transphobe when all I’m trying to do is to call out your bullshit, what you’re actually achieving is making me loose simpathy for your cause.
Better still, convince lemmy.ml to defederate from all of us.
I’ve seen so much gay shit on my feed I can’t believe that’s true
Critical thinking has left the building
K. Bye.
