You don’t agree to pay it. You can’t opt out and if you don’t pay you get put in jail. How is this not theft?

  • @Tolookah@discuss.tchncs.de
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    5412 days ago

    You opt into it by living in society. If you don’t want to pay taxes, find yourself a cave in the woods. If you use the roads to get to work, then you need to pay for the roads. (This applies to all public things, like if you want an educated populace, you need to pay for schools, even if you aren’t going to the school yourself. Taxes is a way to pay for all this stuff)

    • @CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org
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      11 days ago

      In most countries, living in a cave in the woods would imply trespassing or poaching. There really is no way to opt out. Arguably, that’s okay, whoever said you never have to do stuff you don’t want to was lying.

  • Rhynoplaz
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    4712 days ago

    Thousands of years of civilization have taught us that it’s more efficient for everyone to pitch in to help each other than it is for everyone to live like a hermit and hoard their wealth.

          • AmbiguousProps
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            2812 days ago

            Do you choose to use roads? Do you choose to shower? Do you choose to use power? Do you choose to use sewer? Do you choose to use public parks? Do you choose to use libraries? Do you choose to use anything subsidized by the government?

            Then you’re choosing to pay for it. Million dollar infrastructure projects cannot be funded without taxes. It’s better if the load is balanced. This is why billionaires should be footing the majority of the bill, so you don’t have to cover their share. You should reframe your question to: why do billionaires steal money from us by not paying their fair share?

          • @sandflavoured@lemm.ee
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            12 days ago

            You certainly do have the option to decline!

            Serious answer, living in a society is not the default way to live in the world.

            The option to say no is to decline to use the territory or services offered by a state.

            In other words, one would need to renounce citizenship of any countries one is a part of. Any commercial interactions they still have with a society will incur tax, if they prefer to not pay tax at all (for whatever reason), they would have to choose not to interact commercially with any person or organisation that is part of a state.

      • @Thistlewick@lemmynsfw.com
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        12 days ago

        You just got your answer: Because it is agreed that it helps all of us.

        Don’t want to pay taxes? Stop drinking tap water. Don’t turn on your lights. Stop driving on the roads. Don’t seek any medical care ever. Don’t catch the bus. Don’t even look at a public park.

        If everybody pays a fraction of their income, these things can be funded. If we all went it alone, do you have the money or skills to maintain the roads you drive on? If you don’t, do you think the other guy is going to do it for free? Or cheap, knowing that he has skills you don’t?

        EDIT: it can be argued about the proper use of tax funds in any particular country, eg an excessive ‘defence’ budget in the US.

  • ℛ𝒶𝓋ℯ𝓃
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    1212 days ago

    There’s many folk in Appalachia with no legal identity. Go move out there with the Amish if that’s what you want, no id = no taxes.

  • @temporal_spider@lemm.ee
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    1110 days ago

    Let’s turn the question around. You benefit from the many things other people’s taxes have provided, even before you were born. You were probably born in a hospital funded by taxes. The hospital staff was educated by public schools and federally subsidized student loans. You drive on public roads, and are (at least in theory,) protected by publicly funded cops, firefighters, and military. (I did say in theory.) You probably get your electricity, water, sewer and trash pickup from a public utility - even though you pay for your usage, you still benefit from the public expenditure to build and maintain that infrastructure.

    So the real question is how is not paying taxes not theft? You’d be a freeloader, stealing from the rest of us.

  • @ProfessorScience@lemmy.world
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    612 days ago

    How is the definition of theft determined? Typically the definition is determined by the government. Why would the government define its own funding source as theft?

  • @Rednax@lemmy.world
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    511 days ago

    You are in a contract with the government. Maybe an involuntary one, but still a contract. This contract gives you rights and benefits, but also obligations and responsibilities.

    When the government does not uphold their end of the contract, or changes it to essentially only obligations for you and no benefits, then it becomes extortion. Still not exactly theft, but closer to what you mean.

    However, the vast majority of people get benefits that far outweight the costs of the contract. Safety, transportation, education, utilities, etc.

  • @CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org
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    11 days ago

    I mean, maybe it is, but so what? The law of the jungle never ended; you can do whatever you want with enough force on your side.

    Put another way, we arbitrarily exclude the ruling state from the definition of theft, so we can discuss the extralegal kind better.

  • @ChocoboEnthusiast@leminal.space
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    12 days ago

    Which specific tax are you referring to? Most taxes make sense in the USA, income tax, sales tax, property tax and such are just payments for services.

    However, I do agree that inheritance tax is theft. Also, how the USA considers winning prizes/cash from sweepstakes, game shows, lottery as a form of income so you don’t actually win what was stated is also theft

  • @WatDabney@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    212 days ago

    It’s not theft if you voluntarily pay it.

    If it’s taken from you against your will though, it actually is theft. It’s just that that fact discommodes a number of people by cutting to the heart of the nature of governance, so we’re conditioned to pretend that it’s not true.

    Here’s something beyond that to think about - a significant number of the things a government does are actially things that would be, in any other context, crimes. In fact, that’s arguably the exact nature of a government - it’s an organization that claims the right to act in ways that are criminal if done by anyone else in any other context.

    Theft is the most common one, and in fact theft of the wealth of (some portion of) the people in a given area is the thing that allows for all of the rest. Governments also regularly engage in kidnapping, extortion and murder. That’s what you would be charged with if you, respectively, took people by force and held them against their wills, or demanded payment from people in exchange for allowing them to do something, or killed people or directed someone else to kill them. But governments alone claim the right to do all of those things.

    Also, there are a bunch of lesser “crimes” that aren’t necssarily crimes in and of themselves, but that the government makes into crimes specifically to create that situation in which they’re the only ones with the right to do something that’s otherwise a crime - running a lottery, selling restricted products like pharmaceutical drugs, printing money, etc.

    And in fact, if we were to make just the small change to holding that it’s the case that if an act is a crime when someone else does it, it’s also a crime when a government does it, governments would immediately be without either power or purpose. That’s how central committing acts that are otherwise crimes is to their entire identity and purpose.

    And more to think on - this is a problem because try as they might for millennia now, nobody has been able to work out a way to establish foundational legitimacy for government. Ultimately the nominal legitimacy of each and every government relies on some combination of laws it has established itself and simple force - there is no external, objective thing on which a government’s nominal legitimacy rests.

    So what we really have are organizations that cannot establish any sort of objective legitimacy engaging in acts that would be crimes if done by anyone else.

    Let that sink in.