I get that reality sucks, but that doesn’t make your delusions correct :3c
edit: this is specifically about the US, hence the reference to the “liberal experiment” as it was once called. Yes, many other countries are not past the point of no return, but very few are not in grave danger.
I’m tired of people acting like Trump didn’t win an election underst democratic processes, claiming that this isn’t democracy, instead of recognizing that democracy IS the problem.
tf you talking about “democracy being the problem?” We lived in an oligarchy led by neoliberals who wanted to maintain oligarchy, and fascists who promised change. There’s a reason I called it “democracy” and not democracy.
By its very nature democracy is oppressive of the minority.
Rather than oppressive of the majority? Sounds like the superior way to organize a society tbh :/
I suggest you all to review your American history because things like this have happened in several occasions and to several degrees.
You should know that Tammany Hall was a thing, and so was the Business Plot, and the Kent State shootings and things like the Battle of Blair Mountain were more common than you would believe.
I understand that to young people, seeing what’s happening is scary, but democracy is a continuous battle that we tend to forget it exists but that we ought to fight as the alternative is always worse than anything you might imagine (based on the testimonials of survivors).
EDIT: I added few links with worth reading articles.
“Time is a wheel in constant motion always rolling us along. Who wants to look back on their years and wonder where those years have gone?” ― Lee Ann Womack
I suggest you all to review your American history because things like this have happened in several occasions and to several degrees.
None of your examples are anywhere near an actual fascist takeover of the United States. This is certainly a battle that needs to be fought, but the way you made your point implies that this will all blow over like the other things you listed when really, there’s a good chance that this is it for American democracy (at least for a couple decades) and everyone in this needs to be aware of that.
You need to read up on the history of our liberal democratic system. Mexican American US citizens have been deported on mass before; violent instability has happened before, but not since the civil war has the legislature and judiciary been sidelined so hard by the executive. Not since then has our military been bent like this. We are seeing a transformation to our government beyond what happened in the New Deal era, where so many Rubicons are crossed that it’s doubtful we’ll have institutional stability within this century.
Old people like you, who grew up in an era where the empire was strong and internally stable, will never understand that your world is gone. You lack the creativity to comprehend that you were living in the unprecedented times; you were living in an era unrepresentative of what history is actually like.
People like you are who I am directing this post to. People who fail to understand why the circumstances are not comparable.
…you sound like an opinionated prick. If you need to salve your fear of the future, i hear drugs are fun. Beyond the obvious that “things will never be the same”, we can fight to improve what we have …just like we always do. Doomsaying the end of American democracy is silly. Grow up.
Again, you’re assuming that “the end of American democracy” = “it’s all over, we should give up” I long wrestled with the basic knowledge that the climate crisis would get worse for the rest of my life, but I eventually found a way to move past it:
I’d rather be prepared for that suffering so I can appreciate the joys I get along the way even more. There will be suffering, so I need to stock up on happiness whenever I can. I need to love myself so I can be more optimistic about my future without staking it all the world’s future. I have certainty there will be some level of deeply bad shit, but that’s more comforting now than disturbing. I’ve moved past wanting the world to be good; it just isn’t, and I can work with that.
This type of radical acceptance eases the dread without making you believe you don’t need to work to make things better. This way I can see the truth AND not feel hopeless and apathetic. It’s not easy to think this way, but it is totally doable.
Because giving up is a great thing to do immediately after opposition presents itself…
Bish, we lost that battle already. We can’t fight the next one until we accept that -_-
That’s the dumbest thing pretending to be a platitude I’ve ever seen.
This message is a terrible platitude because I don’t care about you feeling comfortable. This is an uncomfortable time, and no amount of self care can save you from it. Things are just bad, but we still have to live.
The world is unjust and cruel, but that doesn’t mean we should pretend it isn’t. Learn to live with the knowledge that our global climate will become worse every year even if all emissions stopped immediately. We can still experience joy, love, and satisfaction, even if suffering will hound us at every turn.
You should probably learn what words mean before you attempt to throw them back at people.
You’ve also seemed to completely forget the context of this entire convo.
You’re right. I should’ve focused on how you assume me saying American democracy is dead means I’m giving up. It’s an annoying ass strawman that assumes harsh statements must inspire apathy.
We need to not look to the Democrats as an ally against fascism or national politics as the focus of our efforts. We don’t “give up” resistance in any sense, just refocus our strategy to avoid mistakes the left made electorally. Non electorally, joining militias if capable, volunteering mutual aid of the basic necessities is also essential.
We couldn’t have a useful discussion when you never properly understood my position in the first place. We just continue talking past each other.
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“There’s no way to fix it, just give up now”
Okay wumao
Yes, US democracy is dead. I think it’s still got legs in some other countries though.
True. OTOH there’s plenty politicians who are trying to pull a Trump these days. It was already noticeable in 2016, and I had high hopes for it being the end of that in 2020, but then 2024 happened…
But all in all, yes, we have to look at the whole world here. The USA won’t collapse in a vacuum, nor will it pull all other countries with it.
Canada and Australia only narrowly dodged a bullet. The UK already got a taste of blood thanks to Rowling. Germany is currently grappling with the Musk-fundes AFD
Poland, Hungary. Philippines. Even Japan. Israel. Several South-/Central American countries, not just Brazil and the one they deport the immigrants to. Etc. TBF Trump didn’t exactly invent what is now called Trumpism but gave it a good boost.
Germany is currently grappling with the Musk-fundes AFD
Germany has been grappling with AfD for way longer; Musk’s meddling might’ve had some but not much effect on the election. And afaik he does not fund them at all.
As an Australia I gotta say Trump was right … I am getting kinda tired of winning
Mm yes America = democracy
Mm yes, I was specifically talking about the American context, and specifically America’s version of democracy. My bad for not mentioning that in this post.
These posts would be more compelling if they didn’t all propose the same bullshit “Focus on your local community; ignore the wider situation because it’s ugly and requires you to work with bad people 😊” response that got us into this mess.
America can’t vote themselves out of the mess they voted themselves into. That ship has sailed. The only “positive” outcome would be a total secession of the blue states, leaving the red ones to fester in their own mess. But it won’t be easy.
late reply to your post from 20+ hours ago but when I see things like “we need to leave the red states…” means people like me, who voted opposite of a good majority of others, to die. Don’t leave us behind, I beg you (third person you). We are fighting where we can.
It’s gonna be more like oligarchs try and establish their own competing kingdoms.
Soon, The Restaurant Wars will begin. Taco Bell will conquer America, while Pizza Hut takes the UK.
Its foolish to think America had any other option long term. Americans might have voted for fascism sooner rather than later but we could not escape the inevitable. When capitalist empires lose their grip they close their hand into a fist. It will happen to you to if you don’t do more than just vote.
“The imperial need for control is so desperate because it is so unnatural. Tyranny requires constant effort. It breaks. It leaks. Authority is brittle. Oppression is the mask of fear.”
This is half correct. There is no going back for America (and honestly, if after all this Americans choose the status quo I am going to lose all faith in them), but that doesn’t mean democracy is dead. Y’all will have to forge a new path ahead, whether towards fascism or true® democracy. As a wise man once said: Never let a good crisis go to waste.
I don’t care about systems of governance beyond what they do for us. People are being sent to camps, while countless will die from them dismantling safety regulations and public health policy. No amount of “good opportunities” will change the fact that this is a real nightmare for real people. Don’t lose sight of why good systems matter.
No amount of “good opportunities” will change the fact that this is a real nightmare for real people.
True, and exactly because this is a real nightmare for real people we shouldn’t forget that there’s still a chance to end this particular nightmare and also other, older nightmares that were previously too interwined with the status quo. Resignation is exactly what Trump’s goons want and not so coincidentally the exact opposite of what it will take to end this nightmare. In other words: Trump’s public health policy and deregulation will only kill countless people if you let him stay in office long enough to continue those things. Those deaths are still preventable.
I would love for someone to remove him the only way we can and I applaud anyone who works at that. However, I have not the skills or the anonymity required to do something like that. There is real danger in me even telling people how this administration must end, so me laying out the facts is the part I choose to play.
Obviously you know your own circumstances best, but as far as I know neither skills nor anonymity are needed to occupy your local city square or ICE headquarters; you only need numbers.
Unfortunately, not being brown is a perquisite for avoiding an easy ticket to the camps. Maybe if I was white, cis, and het, but my countless intersecting identities make me public enemy number one for these guys. They could not make an easier target if they tried.
I choose to be delusional and let things play out a little further before saying everything is fucked. If we just gave up now and accepted it’s dead, then they’ll make sure it’s dead. If we hold hope and keep protesting ( even the violent ones ) something might change.
Read about resistance to the Third Reich for pointers on how the needle might be moved. It’s not a perfect comp, but it’s the mindset you’ll need. Targeting the rich is more important in our case.
Bravest meme
It certainly pissed people off ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
