There are always fools who can be tricked into thinking the new group of tyrants will be different but the results speak for themselves, and much analysis has pointed out the factors in Marx’s ideas that led to these outcomes.
Yup, read about the early history of Marxism. It’s the same power struggle BS as every other ideology. And that evolved into the brutality of the USSR’s police state violence and other similar states whose elites thought that was a fun and successful system.
You can’t liberate people by dominating them. It’s incoherent.
There’s nothing morally wrong with being greedy by itself. If someone does a good thing for selfish reasons, that’s still a good thing. If I decide to become a doctor because I selfishly want respect, admiration, and social or monetary capital, the world is still better off for me doing so. Sick people will get better.
Greed only becomes bad when you empower people to use violence to keep themselves on top. Most often it is the threat of state violence that forces people into situations where abuse occurs.
No, you can’t disassociate from my factory because I own the patent (says the state), I own the land (says the state), and I own the distribution liscences, (says the state). If you violate my state given rights, the police will come and beat you. I can abuse you, and you can’t leave because the state will punish you if you do. It’s against the principals of the free market.
Emotions are inherently amoral. You clearly have an excess of them.
Do you take issue with the definition of the term free market or are you trying to imply that a system where private entities engage in trade largely without government regulation doesn’t exist?
Right, but greed is just the term for self-interest that is harmful to others. My point was that the “non-harmful” greed that knitwitt was talking about is the same constructive self interest that drives society in both capitalist and socialist systems.
Sure thing… it’s not like capitalism is fundamentally designed to empower the pathologically greedy or anything, eh?
What do the pathologically greedy do in a socialist or communist system? They find a way to gain power except they have almost no competition.
And where’s your proof?
All of history.
Which parts of history, exactly?
The parts where legitimate attempts at a socialist society has been attempted anywhere in the world…of which all failed for human dickish reasons.
And where would those be?
I will give you the opportunity to search for those instances yourself.
No - you will point out these (supposed) “legitimate attempts at a socialist society” you speak of.
How did the anarchist collectives “[fail] for human dickish reasons”? Is outside pressure from fascists a problem inherent to socialism?
Just downvote the sea lion and move on.
Every system of government is designed to empower the shitheads who came up with it.
Marxism is explicitly not designed that way. Like it’s the entire fucking point.
And yes, I’m aware of how attempts at Marxism have gone.
There are always fools who can be tricked into thinking the new group of tyrants will be different but the results speak for themselves, and much analysis has pointed out the factors in Marx’s ideas that led to these outcomes.
So I stand by my statement.
You stand by your statement that it was designed that way? You sure?
Yup, read about the early history of Marxism. It’s the same power struggle BS as every other ideology. And that evolved into the brutality of the USSR’s police state violence and other similar states whose elites thought that was a fun and successful system.
You can’t liberate people by dominating them. It’s incoherent.
There’s nothing morally wrong with being greedy by itself. If someone does a good thing for selfish reasons, that’s still a good thing. If I decide to become a doctor because I selfishly want respect, admiration, and social or monetary capital, the world is still better off for me doing so. Sick people will get better.
Greed only becomes bad when you empower people to use violence to keep themselves on top. Most often it is the threat of state violence that forces people into situations where abuse occurs.
No, you can’t disassociate from my factory because I own the patent (says the state), I own the land (says the state), and I own the distribution liscences, (says the state). If you violate my state given rights, the police will come and beat you. I can abuse you, and you can’t leave because the state will punish you if you do. It’s against the principals of the free market.
Says who?
What other mythical things do you believe in, liberal?
The tooth fairy, perhaps?
Emotions are inherently amoral. You clearly have an excess of them.
Do you take issue with the definition of the term free market or are you trying to imply that a system where private entities engage in trade largely without government regulation doesn’t exist?
Come liberal, don’t be shy… tell me all the magical thinking you engage in on a regular business.
I’m willing to bet the ridiculous idea of a (so-called) “free market” isn’t even the worst one you’ve swallowed.
Cringe.
Are you a flat earther, perhaps?
Howzabout “chemtrails?” You get panic attacks every time an aircraft flies over at high altitude?
Self interest is a massive part of the open-source movement which is inherently anti-capitalist.
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/self-interest.en.html
https://archive.fosdem.org/2025/schedule/event/fosdem-2025-6540-the-selfish-contributor-revisited/
Self interest isn’t greed.
For example, philanthropy is usually done entirely in self interest.
Read about mutual aid. “Survival of the fittest” isn’t the only mode of evolution, even in other animals/organisms in nature.
Right, but greed is just the term for self-interest that is harmful to others. My point was that the “non-harmful” greed that knitwitt was talking about is the same constructive self interest that drives society in both capitalist and socialist systems.
And you are conflating self-interest with greed because… ?
Do you genuinely not understand the point that @knitwitt@lemmy.world and I are making, or are you just wasting everyone’s time Charlie Kirking?
Again - you are conflating self-interest with greed because… ?
How about you define those two terms yourself, and re-read the comment thread.
You’re not having a meaningful discussion by arguing the semantics around “self-interest” and “constructive greed”.
We are. Right now. And backpedalling because you got caught peddling ridiculous bullcrap isn’t going to help you.
So, again - you are conflating self-interest with greed because… ?