If you voted 3rd party in a FPTP election, you are functionally indistinguishable from a non-voter. You can talk about your principles all you want, but by the mechanics of the electoral system you are exactly equivalent to a non-voter.
Yeah fuck people who help dems win local elections and ballot measures! Those things aren’t real! Everyone knows the house and senate don’t matter! And neither do state legislatures! Fuck those stupid things that don’t affect anyone, it’s all about voting for the guy you think is going to win, not the one you want! Or, idk whatever you dems go on about.
Let’s keep attacking progressive voter base like the DNC wants! Let’s keep alienating them more! It will be a good idea THIS time! It worked so well that’s why 2016 was our best year! Way better than 2008 when we didn’t actively attack them! If we don’t ensure politics is voting against the one you hate most how will we keep all those non-voters at home, keep money in politics, and keep those oligarchs happy!
Exactly the opposite of reality. FPTP does not preclude third parties from winning, hence the existence of the republican party. It does mean you have to vote your principles and not strategically vote. If everyone voted for the party that most closely aligned with their principles, neither the Dems or repubs would ever wing the presidency and would never hold a majority in any Congress at any level.
Incorrect. I can justify any number of results with such a monumental “if”. Any strategy based on such a large number of people suddenly changing their voting tendency in such a way is unworkable. As one party splinters, the other is heavily incentivized to stay together and easily win. It’s a game of chicken; the first party to break ranks is doomed. People understand this on an intuitive, tribalistic level. Fracturing the less monolithic party will only strengthen the more monolithic one. That is reality.
Without organization sufficient to convince at least a third of the country that a specific party is viable, you cannot beat a strategic party with principles alone.
Hard disagree, as again, the republican party exists. It was a third party.
Practically no one votes strategically. The vast majority of voters vote the same as their parents and/or peers. The extreme minority of voters that care about issues vote for whatever party of the two that suits them best at the time.
But bigger than all these groups are the eligible voters that think nothing will change because people like you tell them they only have two options, so they don’t vote.
Because neither option is good. There is Nazi, and there is the group that appoints nazis. Both exist solely for their own power and wealth. Neither help people until the riots get too violent. So why vote. Why care?
So either we introduce a third party or more, and maybe give some hope, or we let the uniparty continue to win and we all have to survive a balkanized US when it collapses.
Without organization sufficient to convince at least a third of the country that a specific party is viable, you cannot beat a strategic party with principles alone.
You quite literally don’t need that, you just need both large options to fail obviously, as they are. People will seek out alternatives and there will be enough that aren’t disillusioned with electoralism that go for that option.
You cant organize on a large scale in the US, you get assassinated if you survive the character assassination.
For example, I bet you still think stein is a Russian spy or spoiler candidate.
Nope. I voted 3rd party because I didn’t want Trump, and I also didn’t want Harris. Maybe if Harris had tried campaining on what Americans wanted, rather than trying to win over people who were obviously not going to vote for her, we wouldn’t be here.
But she chose genocide, money, and the Cheneys over winning an election against one of the least popular presidents we’ve ever had.
You’re talking to someone who was vehemently campaigning for her during the general. She didn’t fail any purity test. She failed at having a good strategy, and it was pretty obvious at the time she was making a big gamble. And I articulated this during the election, while telling all the 3rd party voters on lemmy that they were fucking morons.
Completely agree. It would have demonstrated that she would have been a good president and it would have sealed the deal for her (if there are legit elections). She didn’t step up. AOC did. Says a lot about each of them.
Like when she was up there giving her chatgpt, “make me sound inspirational” concession speech rather than just being mad as hell like the rest of us. She’s plays leader but she will sit in the manager cubical while the rest of us eat the company provided cold turkey in the break room the day before Thanksgiving.
I can’t imagine thinking about “serving people” when majority of them turned out to be hateful idiots that frankly deserve getting their faces eaten by a leopard. Let her catch a break maybe?
Nah, I’m not giving her a break. She handed the elction to Trump on a silver platter. It should have been a slam dunk election, but she chose genocide, money, and the Cheney’s over winning.
If Harris was a leader she would be out there touring like AOC. Shes not a leader. She had her shot to prove otherwise and didn’t.
If she were out there touring people would tell her to shut up and sit down. She had her shot, twice, nobody wants what she’s selling.
Usual: If you voted 3rd party or didn’t vote, you signed off on our current reality.
But you’re not wrong, and I have plenty to disagree with AOC about, but they’re all conversations for a better time; done and done.
Nah, 3rd party voters at least voted. This solely lies on the folks who didn’t vote.
If you voted 3rd party in a FPTP election, you are functionally indistinguishable from a non-voter. You can talk about your principles all you want, but by the mechanics of the electoral system you are exactly equivalent to a non-voter.
Yeah fuck people who help dems win local elections and ballot measures! Those things aren’t real! Everyone knows the house and senate don’t matter! And neither do state legislatures! Fuck those stupid things that don’t affect anyone, it’s all about voting for the guy you think is going to win, not the one you want! Or, idk whatever you dems go on about.
Let’s keep attacking progressive voter base like the DNC wants! Let’s keep alienating them more! It will be a good idea THIS time! It worked so well that’s why 2016 was our best year! Way better than 2008 when we didn’t actively attack them! If we don’t ensure politics is voting against the one you hate most how will we keep all those non-voters at home, keep money in politics, and keep those oligarchs happy!
A histrionic straw man.
Exactly the opposite of reality. FPTP does not preclude third parties from winning, hence the existence of the republican party. It does mean you have to vote your principles and not strategically vote. If everyone voted for the party that most closely aligned with their principles, neither the Dems or repubs would ever wing the presidency and would never hold a majority in any Congress at any level.
Incorrect. I can justify any number of results with such a monumental “if”. Any strategy based on such a large number of people suddenly changing their voting tendency in such a way is unworkable. As one party splinters, the other is heavily incentivized to stay together and easily win. It’s a game of chicken; the first party to break ranks is doomed. People understand this on an intuitive, tribalistic level. Fracturing the less monolithic party will only strengthen the more monolithic one. That is reality.
Without organization sufficient to convince at least a third of the country that a specific party is viable, you cannot beat a strategic party with principles alone.
Hard disagree, as again, the republican party exists. It was a third party.
Practically no one votes strategically. The vast majority of voters vote the same as their parents and/or peers. The extreme minority of voters that care about issues vote for whatever party of the two that suits them best at the time.
But bigger than all these groups are the eligible voters that think nothing will change because people like you tell them they only have two options, so they don’t vote.
Because neither option is good. There is Nazi, and there is the group that appoints nazis. Both exist solely for their own power and wealth. Neither help people until the riots get too violent. So why vote. Why care?
So either we introduce a third party or more, and maybe give some hope, or we let the uniparty continue to win and we all have to survive a balkanized US when it collapses.
You quite literally don’t need that, you just need both large options to fail obviously, as they are. People will seek out alternatives and there will be enough that aren’t disillusioned with electoralism that go for that option.
You cant organize on a large scale in the US, you get assassinated if you survive the character assassination.
For example, I bet you still think stein is a Russian spy or spoiler candidate.
No.
Nope. I voted 3rd party because I didn’t want Trump, and I also didn’t want Harris. Maybe if Harris had tried campaining on what Americans wanted, rather than trying to win over people who were obviously not going to vote for her, we wouldn’t be here.
But she chose genocide, money, and the Cheneys over winning an election against one of the least popular presidents we’ve ever had.
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You’re talking to someone who was vehemently campaigning for her during the general. She didn’t fail any purity test. She failed at having a good strategy, and it was pretty obvious at the time she was making a big gamble. And I articulated this during the election, while telling all the 3rd party voters on lemmy that they were fucking morons.
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imagine being so dumb to think it’s bait.
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Kamala is trash, simple as. She failed horrendously.
Completely agree. It would have demonstrated that she would have been a good president and it would have sealed the deal for her (if there are legit elections). She didn’t step up. AOC did. Says a lot about each of them.
Like when she was up there giving her chatgpt, “make me sound inspirational” concession speech rather than just being mad as hell like the rest of us. She’s plays leader but she will sit in the manager cubical while the rest of us eat the company provided cold turkey in the break room the day before Thanksgiving.
I can’t imagine thinking about “serving people” when majority of them turned out to be hateful idiots that frankly deserve getting their faces eaten by a leopard. Let her catch a break maybe?
Nah, I’m not giving her a break. She handed the elction to Trump on a silver platter. It should have been a slam dunk election, but she chose genocide, money, and the Cheney’s over winning.
Ah the good ol american responsibility deflection strategy
How is accurately describing what happened “deflection”?
a bad carpenter blames their tools.
The Dipshit didn’t even get the majority of people who did vote, let alone the country as a whole