If Harris was a leader she would be out there touring like AOC. Shes not a leader. She had her shot to prove otherwise and didn’t.
If she were out there touring people would tell her to shut up and sit down. She had her shot, twice, nobody wants what she’s selling.
Usual: If you voted 3rd party or didn’t vote, you signed off on our current reality.
But you’re not wrong, and I have plenty to disagree with AOC about, but they’re all conversations for a better time; done and done.
Nah, 3rd party voters at least voted. This solely lies on the folks who didn’t vote.
If you voted 3rd party in a FPTP election, you are functionally indistinguishable from a non-voter. You can talk about your principles all you want, but by the mechanics of the electoral system you are exactly equivalent to a non-voter.
Yeah fuck people who help dems win local elections and ballot measures! Those things aren’t real! Everyone knows the house and senate don’t matter! And neither do state legislatures! Fuck those stupid things that don’t affect anyone, it’s all about voting for the guy you think is going to win, not the one you want! Or, idk whatever you dems go on about.
Let’s keep attacking progressive voter base like the DNC wants! Let’s keep alienating them more! It will be a good idea THIS time! It worked so well that’s why 2016 was our best year! Way better than 2008 when we didn’t actively attack them! If we don’t ensure politics is voting against the one you hate most how will we keep all those non-voters at home, keep money in politics, and keep those oligarchs happy!
A histrionic straw man.
Exactly the opposite of reality. FPTP does not preclude third parties from winning, hence the existence of the republican party. It does mean you have to vote your principles and not strategically vote. If everyone voted for the party that most closely aligned with their principles, neither the Dems or repubs would ever wing the presidency and would never hold a majority in any Congress at any level.
Incorrect. I can justify any number of results with such a monumental “if”. Any strategy based on such a large number of people suddenly changing their voting tendency in such a way is unworkable. As one party splinters, the other is heavily incentivized to stay together and easily win. It’s a game of chicken; the first party to break ranks is doomed. People understand this on an intuitive, tribalistic level. Fracturing the less monolithic party will only strengthen the more monolithic one. That is reality.
Without organization sufficient to convince at least a third of the country that a specific party is viable, you cannot beat a strategic party with principles alone.
Hard disagree, as again, the republican party exists. It was a third party.
Practically no one votes strategically. The vast majority of voters vote the same as their parents and/or peers. The extreme minority of voters that care about issues vote for whatever party of the two that suits them best at the time.
But bigger than all these groups are the eligible voters that think nothing will change because people like you tell them they only have two options, so they don’t vote.
Because neither option is good. There is Nazi, and there is the group that appoints nazis. Both exist solely for their own power and wealth. Neither help people until the riots get too violent. So why vote. Why care?
So either we introduce a third party or more, and maybe give some hope, or we let the uniparty continue to win and we all have to survive a balkanized US when it collapses.
Without organization sufficient to convince at least a third of the country that a specific party is viable, you cannot beat a strategic party with principles alone.
No.
Nope. I voted 3rd party because I didn’t want Trump, and I also didn’t want Harris. Maybe if Harris had tried campaining on what Americans wanted, rather than trying to win over people who were obviously not going to vote for her, we wouldn’t be here.
But she chose genocide, money, and the Cheneys over winning an election against one of the least popular presidents we’ve ever had.
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You’re talking to someone who was vehemently campaigning for her during the general. She didn’t fail any purity test. She failed at having a good strategy, and it was pretty obvious at the time she was making a big gamble. And I articulated this during the election, while telling all the 3rd party voters on lemmy that they were fucking morons.
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imagine being so dumb to think it’s bait.
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Kamala is trash, simple as. She failed horrendously.
Completely agree. It would have demonstrated that she would have been a good president and it would have sealed the deal for her (if there are legit elections). She didn’t step up. AOC did. Says a lot about each of them.
Like when she was up there giving her chatgpt, “make me sound inspirational” concession speech rather than just being mad as hell like the rest of us. She’s plays leader but she will sit in the manager cubical while the rest of us eat the company provided cold turkey in the break room the day before Thanksgiving.
I can’t imagine thinking about “serving people” when majority of them turned out to be hateful idiots that frankly deserve getting their faces eaten by a leopard. Let her catch a break maybe?
Nah, I’m not giving her a break. She handed the elction to Trump on a silver platter. It should have been a slam dunk election, but she chose genocide, money, and the Cheney’s over winning.
Ah the good ol american responsibility deflection strategy
How is accurately describing what happened “deflection”?
a bad carpenter blames their tools.
The Dipshit didn’t even get the majority of people who did vote, let alone the country as a whole
Only a shock to folks who still think Democrat centerists are what’s gonna win the votes
“We want to maintain the status quo that led to the election of Trump twice!”
Exactly! It’s just… why?
I will vote for AOC with pride. But I’m leery about running another woman right now. Neither Hillary nor Kamala could win against Trump.
That said, I can’t think of anyone I’d be happier to vote for. I dream of her being President. I don’t know if swing states will have it, but I would fight to make it so.
Hillary Clinton won the popular vote. There’s no statistical difference in the chances of victory between men and women when running for political office. Lots of Republican politicians are women. I don’t see it as a big deal.
Also, lots of open racists voted for Obama. If you look at the polling and the interviews, it was much more about running conservative Democrats trying to get the votes of people who wanted to shake things up. That’s what Obama promised, that’s why Sanders would’ve won, by some measures, and it seems AOC is out there generating the same buzz.
There’s no statistical difference in the chances of victory between men and women when running for political office. Lots of Republican politicians are women. I don’t see it as a big deal.
It’s only a deal because the democratic party is willing to hold back all women just to prevent the success of one progressive woman.
Hillary and Kamala were awful candidates - they wouldn’t have won if they were men or if it were the first coming of Christ. (I’m skeptical he ever arrived at all). The DNC is the blame for their failure. Hillary was out of touch. Kamala had too many issues to list.
All that aside, they would have presidented circles around Trump.
Maybe because Hillary and Kamala were terrible candidates? Are you kidding me?
I will vote for AOC with pride. But I’m leery about running another woman right now.
…that we’re talking about a progressive woman.
I’m a huge AOC supporter, but she should wait a 2 or 3 cycles (if there are any cycles anymore). I’d rather see her take Schumer’s senate seat, and serve there for a term or two first, and succeed Bernie as the Senate’s progressive leader.
Exactly zero people who voted for trump last election will vote for a non-white woman.
Country is fucked.
I read it as “it’s a shock that she came in second” lol
Needs a little Asterisk* next to centrist and a footnote
*still way further left than any Republican
A Democratic centrist literally polled at #1. It’s in the headline.
I’m shocked that Harris is in first place…
I used to be shocked Biden was #1 in 2019. Turns out, name recognition matters more than anything else, and Harris had a historic campaign budget. (Not that it was used well, but AOC has never had that level of PR)
Not so sure about that, I knew who Cortez was years before I recognized Harris and I’m not in either of their districts.
But you are commenting on Lemmy, which i’d argue makes you atypical and your media/news consumption probably looks very different to that of the average American.
Technically I’m on Mbin, but I get your point.
That said, I was hearing her name in broadcast and print news reports way before Harris and I visit a wide variety of websites.
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How is speaking to the public not public relations?..
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No, That’s a PR company, which specializes in the abstract concept of relating to the public. If you just say PR you’re not talking about an organization
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Actually they’re a territory
I only knew about Cortez because my MAGA cousins would rant about her and the Green New Deal and I decided to look her up.
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I’m not,
I’m genuinely skeptical that most polls are an accurate sampling of the population. Most people I know would never sit through a phone poll. Most polls reek of phishing. One of the very first phone polls said that Dewy would beat Truman in a landslide. It was completely wrong because it was predominantly rich people who had the phones to even answer the polls.
Who has the time for polls? Who drops by the candidate booths at the state fair? It’s a type for sure.
The only poll I have been a part of all last year was a phone poll entirely about optometrists and eye appointments and how they should be handled in the healthcare system. I couldn’t even finish it because the entire things was just… painful to go through.
Current DNC leadership might push Hillary for 2028
Insert I’m tired boss meme here.
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I’m not. Most people are very passive politically and only know what the evening nees mentions. Most of them probably don’t know who AOC is (or perhaps only knows her by ‘AOC’ and the forms used her full name).
Harris is their default poll vote because they recognise her name
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The fact that Kamala is even going to try to run again shows how fucked that party is.
Why is Harris even mentioned? She should disappear like Hillary.
Nobody wants this person to run again.
Anyone doing a poll would be negligent not to include the previous nominee and former vice president. That’s not to imply she’s a good choice, only that she’s an obvious choice.
Good point 👍
Harris polls in 1st place
Lemmy Leftists: “no one wants Harris!”
Y’all are in a bubble.
Harvard poll: 72% of Dem voters prefer more left-leaning candidates like Sanders and AOC over moderates like Harris.
Lemmy Leftists: Yes.
Cryophilia: Y’all are in a bubble.
Unfortunately that poll had some very loaded wording in it that doesn’t necessarily lead to the conclusion it’s trying to present
From page 20:
Do you support more Democrats like Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez who are calling on Democrats to adopt a more aggressive stance towards Trump and his administration and “fight harder”, or moderate Democrats who are willing to compromise on Trump issues important to their base?
72% of Democratic voters answered “yes”.
Go ahead and point out this alleged “loaded wording”.
You don’t see it?
You’re assuming that because they want more candidates to obstruct the current administration, that they would also prefer those candidates and throw actual policies in every other situation.
Because they mixed progressive and opposing the admin together in one question, you can’t tell which part is really what they’re agreeing with.
Using this specific question to claim they want more progressive candidates is futile. This is basic polling literacy stuff…
The problem is that you think people are too stupid to understand the question, and only you are smart enough to figure it out.
It’s a basic question asking if people prefer Dems like AOC and Sanders, who have a more aggressive stance against Trump, over moderate Dems who will compromise with Trump. It’s very straightforward.
Nowhere did I imply I was the only one who could understand it. What i did say was that the was this was worded could not be taken to mean the same as the stripped down version you presented.
Half of Americans read at or below a 6th grade level. This is NOT a straightforward question in the way you’re claiming. In case you haven’t been paying attention, this country is full of absolute morons who continue to vote against their own interests because of some memes on the Internet…
Harris is guaranteed to lose 2028 if she is somehow the dem nominee instead of the republican nominee. There aren’t enough right wingers willing to abandon the name republican to vote for her.
She just hasn’t moved to the right enough yet! How many more cheneys are there? Any more minorities to break solidarity with?
We’ll see how your fucking bubble turns out when the time comes. Harris couldnt even beat fucking Trump and you think she will win a primary? Batshit.
Harris couldnt even beat fucking Trump and you think she will win a primary?
These are democratic primaries we’re talking about.
One she already lost once. And was given the role without a vote the second time.
Exactly. As long as the nominee isn’t progressive, they’ll move heaven and earth to make sure our options are fascism and second worst to fascism. Regardless of who wins. The party prefers hereditary dictatorship headed by the trump family over a progressive in any seat for any length of time.
She has never won a Democratic primary in her life.
The same ones shes literally already lost before? Insane.
It’s literally in the title. First place.
What an obnoxious and aggressive person. Yikes
So she’ll win a primary this time, right?
If the vote were right now, then according to this poll, yes
You delusional fucks are literally denying reality
This is why Kamala Harris famously won the 2020 nomination and went on to become president, because she was polling in first place before the campaign process started.
Famously was a strong contender across all of 2020 and won her home state easily!
Wait she fucking flopped in a sea of other milquetoast candidates, which is why they all dropped out before Super Tuesday to help Biden.
It’s in the title, dude. First place.
Yeah, just like she was in 2019 before the campaign started, which is why she was elected president.
I guess the difference is that those polls were only like a year out from the election while this one’s over three years away. Maybe that means this one will be more meaningful?? Somehow???
Anecdotally, my sister does. I was baffled when she said it and had to try my best to respond politely, because she’s the only other person in my family who isn’t a Republican.
From my perspective, she bombed out of 2020 despite being a media darling cast as the frontrunner, and then was just handed the nomination in 2024 without a real primary and still lost, both of which demonstrate she has terrible political instincts and isn’t popular enough to win. From her perspective, the fact that she dropped out in 2020 before any votes were casts means she was never given a fair chance, and the fact that she was handed the nomination meant she didn’t have enough time to make her case and the unusual circumstances are what caused her to lose, and if she just had another chance she’d nail it.
I’m pretty sure she’s an outlier though and most people are just saying Kamala because of name recognition.
Your sister is pointing at every tree while missing the forest.
This bro lives in a bubble with steel plating.
Nah, thats you.
A lot more people show up to listen to people like AOC. Harris is MIA.
Get out of your bubble
A crowd of 30,000 in a metropolitan area of 3 Million people. We don’t need our best to draw the biggest crowds we need them to get the most votes.
I’m fine with her running in a Primary.
The democratic party is cooked if it runs Kamala again. There is no way Kamala is running this high in the polls.
Why on earth would you run kamala again? The democrats can’t afford to learn anymore lessons. School is out. Time to start producing.
Why on earth would you run kamala again?
democrats would nominate trump if the alternative was a progressive.
Why on earth would you run kamala again?
Because you thought watching her faceplant in 2020 was hilarious and you want a repeat.
!lemmysilver
Thank you for voting. You can vote again in 24 hours. leaderboard
can’t afford to learn anymore lessons.
Lol!!! They can afford the whole school!! They are laughing hand in hand with Republicans all the way to the bank!!
“BUT THEY ARE BETTER THO!”
Objectively, they are better.
Second place to Harris??? Holy fuck we deserve our fate.
Edit: upon reading the article (I know…) AOC has the best net favorability. So a little more hopium there.
Fucking morons never learn.
Oh they learn, the wrong lessons.
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Stop with this shit. It’s 2025. This is stupid.
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Women can’t be president in America. We have a shitty culture that prevents that from happening. We keep trying, we keep failing. If you want to win, find another candidate with a dick. That’s a requirement in America. Not saying I like it. Just saying that’s reality.
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Running Harris was a mistake in 2024 and it would be a mistake if it happens in 2028
Wasn’t Harris their only option since Biden took so long to drop out?
She was the only one that could legally access campaign funds since there was no time for a primary.
It was either going to be him or her and both options were far from ideal.
Not quite, the DNC was still ahead. But democrats didn’t want the optics of a last-minute open primary where the candidates rip into each other trying to get the nomination on live TV. Plus Kamala herself seemed to move quickly and wanted the nomination before anyone had a chance to get a word in.
Which is a stupid argument if the presidency comes with pardon powers.
There was time for a primary, but the DNC wanted to be sure and clamp down on any possible dissent. They wanted to make it clear that they get to pick the candidates, and the voters have to deal with it.
Welcome to American politics, when the 2028 election begins in 2024 and the 2028 primary began in 2020.
I’m so tired.
yeah, zero interest in supporting kamala “keep arming isreal” fucking harris again.
so people think that AOC or Harris is going to win in this very racist/sexist country we are in? Guess it will be Trump again.
I’d vote for AOC over Kamala, 100%.
I mean, I still voted for Kamala, but I wasn’t excited about it.
