“We set out to solve one of the most common frustrations we hear — finding and changing settings on your PC — using the power of AI agents,” Navjot Virk, corporate vice president of Windows Experiences at Microsoft, said in a blog post on Tuesday. “An agent uses on-device AI to understand your intent and with your permission, automate and execute tasks.”
Seems like it would have been cheaper, easier, and better pr to just simplify settings or have them in more logical categories, but what would I know.
If a problem exists, and you try to fix it without AI, do you even stand a chance at getting promoted?
It’s much more fun to just half-ass a new control panel with only a few features, and then hide the old, fully-functional control panel.
Bonus points if you can then begrudgingly finally show the old, useful, control panel when a user clicks 6 layers deep in the new panel.
First time using Microsoft products, is it?
If you have to supply your users with AI support to figure out how to configure your OS, you might be doing something wrong.
By that definition, linux is doing something wrong. Despite it being my daily driver, I have zero clue how it works, or how to do anything.
100x worse if the word “terminal” is used.
I don’t think anyone’s ever said Linux is user friendly for non technical people. Atleast not earnestly or without hard coping
non technical people are doing pretty well, because they don’t try to install photoshop or nvidia drivers downloaded from the nvidia drivers page.
The “windows power user” are the hardest demographic, because they expect to know what they are doing but the don’t if they are new to linux.
What did LTT write in the terminal again: “i know that this opperation will delete my gui and i am sure that i want that”, presses enter and wonders why his gui is gone. go figure
I love Linux because it treats the user like an adult, and let’s them delete their UI if that’s their prerogative. No kink shaming there.
I’ve literally heard for 15-20 years now that “This is the year of linux! It’s so much easier and better than windows!”
My response has been that if Linux ever had an interface that’s intuitive, and non-techies can take to instantly, Linux would actually grow. Their reply each time is that “Linux is getting more popular by the day!”. And that’s true. However, it’s a bit misleading. About a year ago I read that Linux was at the highest usage it’s ever had, at roughly 5% of the market.
Think about that. Linux has been around in some form since 1991, and it’s always been free (with a few exceptions). A free platform can’t compete against Apple, who’s notorious for being ungodly expensive, and Windows, who’s known for being costly in it’s own right, and also terribly optimized. Still running certain code in the background since windows 95. Yet Linux, as of a year ago cracked an all time high of 5%. Which may as well be a rounding error.
The ONLY reason I use linux as my daily driver, is because my other daily driver, which I haven’t booted in a few months, is Windows 7. And I’m not even worried about the security issues. It’s just gotten sluggish, and less and less things work on it over time. It’s easier to just use linux, as I mostly just use it as a means to open a browser anyways. My desktop looks more like Windows XP than linux. It just doesn’t act like Windows XP.
That’s what we need. A Linux distro that functions exactly like a modern day Windows XP. I think Windows XP couldn’t handle hard drives with more than 4TB. So, obviously that’s something a modern OS would fix. But the idea of just clicking .exe files, and installing them like on windows? That works for me. All the stuff Linux users hate about windows? If it were optimized and modernized, I’d take that over traditional Linux experiences.
But I will never use Windows 10 or especially 11. Fuck that.
You are looking at this the wrong way. Nobody needs to compete with Windows and Mac, particularly volunteers do not want to be free support for people too lazy to learn the slightest thing for themselves and asking all the questions already covered prominently in the documentation again and again. Why would anyone optimize to get those people to Linux in their projects?
You’ve clearly never supported users on windows and macos when they weren’t already familiar with it or you’d never imply that windows and macos had intuitive interfaces that nontechies could take to instantly. None of them do but for a long time the default interface people were introduced to and taught to use was primarily windows unless they were doing art or media when they got introduced to macos instead.
You’re making the mistake in assuming that what’s popular must be the best/easiest. That’s definitely not true. People don’t pick Windows because it’s easier to use than other OSes. They pick it because that’s what they’re used to. It takes a lot of inertia to get over what people are comfortable with and get them to use something different.
I want to say I’ve read that statement like 10 times this week on lemmy
For them, adding the AI is probably cheaper then fixing the UI.
Let’s be honest. You could make the simplest most intuitive UI and people still won’t spend the 30 seconds to read.
No regular user can configure anything. Most are barely literate and have the reading comprehension of a 6-8 year old.
Ai allows them to just say, turn down the brightness, turn down the volume, use this program to open this file from now on, which makes 10% configuration accessible to the 99% who otherwise would have 1% or less.
Holy f***, God forbid making settings menus that actually get you to where you want to go, definitely wouldn’t want to do that, much better to AI.
No shit… If you want to solve the common frustration of not being able to find settings, maybe don’t put half of them in a settings app and the other half in the control panel, and then rename and move all of them every year.
Don’t forget, outright removing a UI for modifying settings forcing users to use registry mods, potentially a PS command, or a third party tool to force the behavior you lost from a simple setting removal.
Option 1: Admit your UI choices (made mostly to accommodate an all tablet PC future that never arrived) are terrible and redesign the Windows settings screens to display all new and old settings that still work, with search functions.
Option 2: Spend tens of billions training an AI to find those settings and change them.
Well done, Microsoft. I knew you’d make the right choice.
I agree option 1 is the correct choice, though it does appear they are slowly going that direction… very slowly.
But they definitely didn’t spend millions, nevermind billions, on shoehorning this one extra feature into their existing AI models.
I agree option 1 is the correct choice, though it does appear they are slowly going that direction…
Really? Because every new Windows version is even worse than the one before it. There are now 3? 4? different places to change network settings, but only one of them actually works correctly, if you modify the wrong one it will act like it worked but will silently break all networking on the machine instead.
They’ve moved away from touch centric controls, and are “slowly” moving things into the modern settings. I never claimed their shit was clean, just moving in what seems to be the right direction, for the most part.
Now hear me out on this, maybe, just maybe if we didn’t move the same settings 1-2 layers deeper behind some UI bullshit we wouldn’t have to look for it. And- get this- let’s say we needed to search for these settings… (calm down y’all. I know you know. 🤣) What if we made the search work?! INSANITY.
As a dev - legitimately what the fuck are these morons doing. The os gets worse every iteration - it uses more resources, to do less, shittier. I’m sorry: you don’t get to kill off another os version because you can’t entice the user base into a worse situation. (internal screaming)
maybe, just maybe if we didn’t move the same settings 1-2 layers deeper behind some UI bullshit we wouldn’t have to look for it.
This trend pisses me off so much. Companies need to learn that for settings I’m likely to have to change they need to minimize the number of actions to change it. But people in all these companies find the need to reorganize things to make it seem like they are accomplishing something.
But people in all these companies find the need to reorganize things to make it seem like they are accomplishing something.
Gotta put something on that LinkedIn profile. 🙄
Honestly it really feels like a race to the bottom with windows recently. It’s like taking a decent product and then just fucking with it to say you did. Nothing is gained and somehow, almost illogically, the action results in even more system resources burning up.
What if we had all these configuration knobs & switches controlled by a plaintext configuration file, and to replicate the configuration, we could just share the file? Maybe we could call it declarative configuration management?
Wouldn’t that be cool? We already have it (partially)?
Maybe an AI could guide us in preparing that file?
Shit you know … I feel like Microsoft has done that with the registry and gpedit… a real shame they seem to disregard those controls when it suits their new advertising model… erm… bing engagement system.
We’ve had config files and scripts for ages. Most of us are pissed that all of those methods half work or are depreciating away for no reason other than some UIx twat couldn’t be bothered to hook something properly so they just reskin an element and misplaced half the functions. Bonus points if they did so while wasting more system resources, breaking their own search pointers, and infuriating sysadmins and users alike.
Now I’ll give you that new methods can absolutely be implemented and replace (effectively even) old, longstanding methods… but Microsoft has utterly missed the boat on this. Repeatedly.
To your ai statement: Look I won’t comment on where AI may or may not end up in 5 years but I know that getting a black box to hallucinate 40% less has got to be infinitely harder than indexing a filesystem, a series of .lnk files, and maybe… maybe some control names. Considering they had most of that working (even if you had the index disabled!) in windows 2000 / 9x / XP it blows my mind why this has not been resolved when it’s basically a meme at this point.
No other OS has this basic problem. Why are we building onto something when the foundation is shit? I’m certain there’s developers at Microsoft that have skills - but I’ll be damned if I see any of them taking a step forward without two back.
Block kernel level driver access to shit. Maybe improve resource usage on existing processes. Fix the goddamn search. Don’t bury a setting behind ANOTHER useless dialog. Fix something - don’t jam more useless shit down our throats. We don’t need new: we need working.
At the rate we’re going the next windows version (maybe even 11) will intersect with Linux (pick a flavor) in terms of compatibility, usability, and stability with Linux doing literally nothing but existing. To be fair every other version is hot garbage. I’m sure we can ride out 11 on 10 … right?
registry and gpedit
They’re still around and the various configuration technologies tap into them.
Most of us are pissed that all of those methods half work or are depreciating away for no reason other than some UIx twat couldn’t be bothered to hook something properly so they just reskin an element and misplaced half the functions.
Pretty much the case here, too. It mostly works, and the parts that don’t are super annoying & require ad hoc script-fu.
it blows my mind why this has not been resolved
Yep, configuring Microsoft has sucked incredibly hard compared to free OSs. Managing plain text configuration files in
/etc&~/.configis refreshingly nice compared to the bolt-on weirdness hidden behind various interfaces in Windows. It’s cute getting an error to contact your administrator when you’re the administrator.Attention in that area is extremely late & overdue, so I was happy to see something like
configuration.dsc.yaml.I see AI mostly as an assistant whose work I review. I might give it a fully written text, tell it to clean up my clunky language, then review it. Or I might ask it to provide some answers with references & review those references.
AI won’t fix broken foundations.
I’m sure we can ride out 11 on 10 … right?
I try to avoid Windows altogether if I can & confine it to less serious work.
They’re still around and the various configuration technologies tap into them.
I noted this in a dismissive way… Yes they exist; but as mentioned - depreciation and outright ignoring settings has become a thing Microsoft has willingly done if they feel “they know better.” (Reboots and update times are an excellent example of this.)
Yep, configuring Microsoft has sucked incredibly hard compared to free OSs. Managing plain text configuration files in
/etc&~/.configis refreshingly nice compared to the bolt-on weirdness hidden behind various interfaces in Windows. It’s cute getting an error to contact your administrator when you’re the administrator.Locking some things out makes sense. This exists in all OSs… what is maddening is Microsoft almost aggressively working against admins. Want local accounts? No sir. Not allowed. Not unless you remove the network card, face the PC east at precisely 2:30 am, and type a 40 character rolling code into the terminal that appears… twice.
Attention in that area is extremely late & overdue, so I was happy to see something like
configuration.dsc.yaml.While I agree - the point I was stressing was that many admins had perfectly workable scripts and methods that used the existing tooling as it was intended… and it’s mostly been fine. With their recent push into spyware inside ™ … ahem engagement … they seem to be actively punching holes in this to force management to their cloud resources which surely will not ever have problems …
I see AI mostly as an assistant whose work I review […] AI won’t fix broken foundations.
Agreed. It does have the means to save some time - but it’s just not “cooked enough” for me to use it on any meaningful level. Personally speaking.
I try to avoid Windows altogether if I can & confine it to less serious work.
Sadly some things I work with just don’t play with wine just yet otherwise I’d abandon it entirely. I’d personally love to, though.
What really bothers me is late in the patching cycle windows 2000 was borderline amazing and could be tuned to an absolutely minute footprint. If it was fully updated for x64 it would have been just about perfect. Nothing got in your way: very minimal UI with “just enough” modern features. Getting to almost any administrative interface was at its lowest “clicks to access” of any (subsequent) windows version. NT dna.
I may just have rose tinted glasses but from basically that point on it was all just bolted on UI garbage that got between you, your resources, and most importantly what you wanted to be doing. And when it comes down to it - regardless of what os were talking about - something has gone horribly wrong if that is the reality.
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I can barely even set a static IP on Windows Server these days. I wiped out a partition the other day as well since the UI is so slow, its like it’s using a REST api to do partitioning.
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In server 2025 its gone I think.
God help you if you want to assign multiple addresses to the same adapter. It’s like navigating a labyrinth.
Holy shit.
Your ux SUCKS SO MUCH, that instead of making it not shitty…
You developed AI for it?
Are you fucking kidding me
How inept are these developers
They broke alt tab.
That’s how fucking inept they are
You brought back an old, old memory of reading a Dave Barry novel about computers. In it, he describes going to a Microsoft convention in which they introduced, IIRC, Windows 95; while describing the taskbar, they apparently touted “no more alt+tab!”
Dear god, those fools never worked with two spreadsheets at once in their life
In what way?
Multiple ways
- there was an update that meant alt-tab brought you a black screen
- there was another one that meant it didn’t tab between the two most recent windows, but brought up a selection. They tried to tout this as a feature you had to turn off
So one is a bug, and another is a feature I actually use everyday. Did you mean the selection prevents you from quickly changing between recent windows? I don’t remember it actually slowing down my switching at all.
Edit: no, wtf am i doing
The thread was about inept the coders were.
Here is your answer: They were so fucking inept they broke a fundamental function and it made it to production. Then they did it deliberately.
That’s how inept they are.
End of.
Microsoft Windows be like
**bangs chest** **glass panel of case explodes**
Maybe if you didn’t split settings into that half-baked settings app, then leave control panel in place with the remaining settings, but make control panel increasingly difficult to get to, we wouldn’t need a stupid AI agent to help us change settings.
Yes! I really feel all this copilot bullshit is to hide the fact they released windows 11 broken as fuck and here 2.5 years later it’s still a pile of shit. It’s just fucked. I have to use it daily for work and clients and it’s done nothing but prepare me to install W10 LTSC this summer or move to Linux. Problem with Linux is a have an Nvidia GPU and don’t like having to fuck with that, otherwise Zorin it will be. Windows 11 pushes me everyday to hate it more and more. Seriously. Daily fucking updates for broken shit and shoving AI down our throats. Fuck windows.
I’m in a similar situation, though I’ve already got a dual boot set up so it’s just a matter of only using Windows when I just absolutely have to.
Earlier today, I tried to zip a directory on Windows 11 with the context menu, and it wouldn’t do it! It’s a feature that’s been in Windows forever and is even in Ubuntu, but somehow over at Microsoft they’ve managed to break it. Incredible.
I’m dualbooting CachyOS with windows, no issues with my rtx 4070 super.
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I’ll look into it again this summer. It’s on the list, just not at the moment
Windows 11 actually released 3.5 years ago!
Oof.
I have an nvidia GPU and it worked out of the box.
I need to look into it more, it’s on my list for this summer
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Ot you can just right click the start menu
The biggest frustration is not me changing settings.
The biggest frustration is windows changing back those settings whenever it feels like it.
This is just doubling down on the “greatest frustration”
Well tbf, they did keep moving them on me and hiding them from me.
Wouldn’t be surprised if they moved them again…behind an AI wall that can interact with them but you can’t without using that AI. Also they’ll continue to reset them whenever they feel like it, if they even successfully get changed by the AI, if the AI doesn’t say “I can’t let you do that Dave” when you try and disable telemetry.
Or maybe the AI just lies and says it changed the setting and then doesn’t. There’s a ‘delete my data’ button on reddit profiles that is literally a fake button, it wouldn’t even be a new tactic.
I figured that’s what this was not their way to help find where ms moved them
How about you make settings easier to find instead? That is, if it wasn’t deliberate to dictate the users a preset.
It is not hard. You just have to change it in the Settings, sorry in the Control Panel or was it in Registry. /s
You can just use powershell. It’s that easy. /s
I’m sure by windows 12 or 13 coprolite will be so good they will get rid of both control panel and command prompt/powershell. The best ui is no ui.
In any case, the users won’t want to mess with settings once the OS already knows which advert they want to see next.
I’m already used to windows settings randomly changing in particular for sound input outputs… So now there will be an AI changing them on top of that?
RNG control panel?
It works exactly like a piglin. You toss Microsoft some gold, and maybe they’ll give you the right setting.
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Can’t wait to see all the exciting ways this fucks up people’s computers.
“To err is human, but it takes a computer to really fuck things up”
True but not quite for the reason you probably quoted it. The computer is merely a force multiplier for the human stupidity.
“All the ways”
Ah Christ. We’ve collectively regressed so much in computer knowledge that people can’t even find a settings menu? Even I have trouble believing that one.
Finding settings in Windows is pretty hard
The last time finding settings in Windows was straight forward was Windows 95. Since the stupid dumbed down ‘settings’ app was vomited upon us, it has been nearly impossible to find the thing you know is there but has now been renamed and moved, and isn’t even indexed in the settings app search bar.
The registry never has and never will be simple nor usable. Windows is rotten to the core.
Have you tried to configure gnome beyond what is offered in its GUI ?
The reasoning I moved from Windows to Linux was this right here.
If I’m going to be fighting with Windows anyway, because of the registry giving me issues, then the drawback of “but Linux hard! You have to configure things!” was moot.
No, I’m a happy i3wm user.
Because I’ve tried to get GNOME to do what I wanted. (Also it was too slow on the machines I was using at the time).
And that’s besides the point: on linux you can just use a good DE without messing with much – KDE, cinnamon, etc…
Just to be the devil’s advocate here: There are way more settings now than back then. That interface wouldn’t cut it either.
The problem isn’t the new coat of paint - it’s more that Microsoft keeps painting half the building then starting over for the new OS. It’s frustrating that the key to finding a setting is knowing when it was developed to know which UI you need to be digging through.
Even on 11 hit winkey+r then type in CONTROL
Not convinced the number matter as much if settings are indexed and thus searchable, which they probably are now otherwise the “AI” wouldn’t be able to access them. So… just more convolutions for the end user?
kinda fair considering windows has like 20 control panels that should all do the same thing but at the end of the day you still need to use regedit.
The problem that i cant find the setting, or it’s in a different app or intentionally cant be changed easily. I want to limit my battery to charge only when below 30%; but i cant do that in battery or power settings. I want to disable some “feature” where windows randomly adds a new keybord layout to windows, but this is not a setting but seems to be a bug. I want to completely disable usb- or lan-wakeup, but despite changing settings in the device manager my desktop is sometimes turned on in the morning after i set it to hibernate the night before. I dont want one-drive or cloud, but this is also not a setting but a design decision by the MS marketing department to make money with their half-baked cloud solutions.
Disabling wol and USB is usually a bios-level setting. Everything else is windows being shite.
Tired that as well, no luck.
Well, there’s the small issue of Windows now having control panel the settings app and some shitty third thing sprinkled in there somewhere. There are some things that should have settings but don’t. You can no longer simply disable Windows update on your own, because Microsoft has decided they know best.
Which one Windows has multiple 😅
I unironically had a friend who hated Linux Mint for awhile because he believed for YEARS you always double click applications in the task bar like you would on your desktop. When he switched he was so furious how apps would crash and/or just not start until I told him “dude… just click it once”
I have no idea how this didn’t happen on Windows or how he never had something open up twice
If you want to fix up settings how about y’all try to fix up settings???
It’s upsetting
Couldn’t they have used ai to figure out how to make the settings less obscure instead.
Apple has entered the chat.
you can only see that apple is in the chat by pressing cmd+shift+alt+l+7
linux should add an ai agent that does nothing except return ascii cats
Oh shit, you just reminded me that I never installed the Cat Walk widget on my current KDE install!
That already exists
cat /dev/randomAnd “AI agent” as in an algorithm that returns the cats every second, obviously.
just rand(0,1000) from a text file of cats :)
We’re just talking about this, but I might as well do it! Do you per chance have an archive of ASCII cats?
