Yeah, but what if they’re not loaded with methylcellulose, or what if we do eventually come close to the real meats or what if this is a gateway product that could convert carnists?
Nope. Give me real plants, unprocessed. Just because a heavily processed compound that happens to be considered vegan might taste like meat has absolutely no bearing on whether or not someone is going to stop eating meat.
It’s kinda like a heroin addict. They’re not gonna stop just because you took their needle away or gave them a different drug. They have to want to stop on their own, otherwise anything you try is moot.
Fair point, although the addicts are not actually interested or want to take the methadone as a replacement and is mainly for uncontrollable withdrawal symptoms.
It’s a larger difference gap than plant meat vs animal meat IMO. In other words, not taking methadone could be a life or death difference (or at least the difference between relapse and not).
In the meat debate, you could most definitely get a very close texture/taste without the fake meats if you use the right plants and spices. You don’t need the fake meats in order to replicate and satiate that meat-taste desire.
I don’t think the question should be whether or not it’s needed, but rather whether it’ll make things easier and encourage more people to make the switch.
No one is making you eat these products. If you’re so addicted to meat that you can’t have even fake meat without risking falling off the bandwagon, then it’s probably better you don’t anyway.
There are plenty of people (me included) who enjoy the taste and experience of eating meat, but would rather eat a plant based alternative. That’s who these products are for. When I have a choice between a real burger and an Impossible burger, I’ll choose the Impossible burger every time. But when I don’t have that choice, I’m going to eat the real burger.
Falling off the bandwagon is not my point. I’m not trying to convert anyone to veganism here. All I’m saying is, just because something tastes like meat doesn’t mean it will pull someone away from eating meat. If they don’t actually want to stop eating meat, then they won’t.
Besides taste, there are very real changes in your body’s gut biome based on the content of what you digest. Your body knows that what you ate is not animal protein and adjusts the enzymes in your stomach as a result. This is why a lot of people complain for the first several weeks of going vegan, because they are gassy as all hell due to these changes.
However, if you keep a little meat mixed in with your new plant diet, that won’t be as strong of a change. Your body knows even if your taste buds don’t.
I just don’t see it as a religion to force down other people’s throats.
And from your other comment, oils are processed foods on top of the fake meats still containing preservatives.
I’m glad you don’t shit yourself, that means you don’t need to pay attention to my warning about MC in the fake meats. Some people have reactions to it, though. Are you also going to tell me that Lactose Intolerance is bullshit because you’ve never shit your pants from drinking milk?
The only preservatives in there are cultured dextrose and vitamin E. Vitamin E occurs naturally in meat anyway, and cultured dextrose is just dextrose that’s been fermented. It’s used as a natural preservative in tons of foods, including deli meats.
Nothing in there is something I would consider “processed”, but I guess that depends on your definition of processed. If fermentation is “processed”, then tons of healthy natural foods are processed, including yogurt, cheese, kombucha, and sauerkraut.
It’s a spectrum, not black and white. Ranges from minimal- to ultra-processed. I’m referencing anything more than minimal (which is as simple as slicing an apple). I have less GSI issues when my intake is raw and whole.
Well that’s exactly what I did, so obviously it didn’t work for you, but substitutes absolutely did it for me. Don’t know why you’re so incredulous.
I’m able to make a false analogy too : It’s kinda like training wheels on a bike. It makes the experience of biking easier for the one learning and eventually you can remove them.
Yeah, but what if they’re not loaded with methylcellulose, or what if we do eventually come close to the real meats or what if this is a gateway product that could convert carnists?
Nope. Give me real plants, unprocessed. Just because a heavily processed compound that happens to be considered vegan might taste like meat has absolutely no bearing on whether or not someone is going to stop eating meat.
It’s kinda like a heroin addict. They’re not gonna stop just because you took their needle away or gave them a different drug. They have to want to stop on their own, otherwise anything you try is moot.
In your heroin example, when they do decide to break the addiction, giving them a different drug (Methadone) is exactly what you do.
Fair point, although the addicts are not actually interested or want to take the methadone as a replacement and is mainly for uncontrollable withdrawal symptoms.
It’s a larger difference gap than plant meat vs animal meat IMO. In other words, not taking methadone could be a life or death difference (or at least the difference between relapse and not).
In the meat debate, you could most definitely get a very close texture/taste without the fake meats if you use the right plants and spices. You don’t need the fake meats in order to replicate and satiate that meat-taste desire.
I don’t think the question should be whether or not it’s needed, but rather whether it’ll make things easier and encourage more people to make the switch.
No one is making you eat these products. If you’re so addicted to meat that you can’t have even fake meat without risking falling off the bandwagon, then it’s probably better you don’t anyway.
There are plenty of people (me included) who enjoy the taste and experience of eating meat, but would rather eat a plant based alternative. That’s who these products are for. When I have a choice between a real burger and an Impossible burger, I’ll choose the Impossible burger every time. But when I don’t have that choice, I’m going to eat the real burger.
Falling off the bandwagon is not my point. I’m not trying to convert anyone to veganism here. All I’m saying is, just because something tastes like meat doesn’t mean it will pull someone away from eating meat. If they don’t actually want to stop eating meat, then they won’t.
Besides taste, there are very real changes in your body’s gut biome based on the content of what you digest. Your body knows that what you ate is not animal protein and adjusts the enzymes in your stomach as a result. This is why a lot of people complain for the first several weeks of going vegan, because they are gassy as all hell due to these changes.
However, if you keep a little meat mixed in with your new plant diet, that won’t be as strong of a change. Your body knows even if your taste buds don’t.
I can definitely tell you’re not trying to convert anyone to veganism. If anything, I’d say you’re trying to keep people from becoming vegan.
I just don’t see it as a religion to force down other people’s throats.
And from your other comment, oils are processed foods on top of the fake meats still containing preservatives.
I’m glad you don’t shit yourself, that means you don’t need to pay attention to my warning about MC in the fake meats. Some people have reactions to it, though. Are you also going to tell me that Lactose Intolerance is bullshit because you’ve never shit your pants from drinking milk?
If I added some olive oil to a recipe, I wouldn’t consider it processed. Here are the ingredients of Impossible burger meat:
- https://faq.impossiblefoods.com/hc/en-us/articles/360018937494-What-are-the-ingredients-in-Impossible-Beef-Meat-From-Plants
The only preservatives in there are cultured dextrose and vitamin E. Vitamin E occurs naturally in meat anyway, and cultured dextrose is just dextrose that’s been fermented. It’s used as a natural preservative in tons of foods, including deli meats.
Nothing in there is something I would consider “processed”, but I guess that depends on your definition of processed. If fermentation is “processed”, then tons of healthy natural foods are processed, including yogurt, cheese, kombucha, and sauerkraut.
It’s a spectrum, not black and white. Ranges from minimal- to ultra-processed. I’m referencing anything more than minimal (which is as simple as slicing an apple). I have less GSI issues when my intake is raw and whole.
https://nutritionsource.hsph.harvard.edu/processed-foods/
So yes, I would consider all those things you listed as processed.
Processed water is an interesting concept.
Or do you just mean cheese and yogurt etc?
I feel like the label just becomes useless if something like a bowl of oats is “processed”.
Well that’s exactly what I did, so obviously it didn’t work for you, but substitutes absolutely did it for me. Don’t know why you’re so incredulous.
I’m able to make a false analogy too : It’s kinda like training wheels on a bike. It makes the experience of biking easier for the one learning and eventually you can remove them.