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My wife has accused me of mansplaining when I really was just sharing the information I had in my head about “the thing” because I was proud of myself about that.
There’s also the “You may already know all this, but it’s worth saying out loud anyway.”
I’m not saying mansplaining isn’t a thing - it certainly is - but there are other innocent “info dump” kinds of things that can look like mansplaining but weren’t intended to be. I try to be very clear about why I am info dumping when I do, but I’m not always able to catch myself in time.
#TouchOfTheTism
Exactly, when I tell my therapist about the funny things I learned about psychology, it’s just me saying stuff that I know now, how I think it’s cool, and asking for further information. I’m well aware that he already knows far more on the topic. If you’re explaining it with a tone of “you fucking idiot woman, I’m educating you”, then that’s mansplaining. Another important possibility, is just phrasing a question as a statement for clarification. Think of how a waiter will repeat your order back to you at a restaraunt. I do the same thing when I learn about a new concept. I repeat back what I think I understood about something to make sure I got it right. Tone is very important. If I don’t sound like I’m trying to be a dick to you, then I’m probably not.
Yeah the intention is far easier to sus out when it’s in person, especially with a known person. I’m a woman and I have ADHD and I do this to my husband all the time.
My partner has taught/trained me to ask “would you like to hear more?” before I info-dump on him.
Example: Me: “at work today I’ve been playing around with configuration settings for Primo VE, specifically the search scopes… Um… would you like to hear more?”
Response: “I’m glad you have an interesting problem at work and no, no thank you.”
You are a starship troopers propaganda video. Would you like to know more?
Yep! I even use that tone of voice with him.
The problem with this, and it’s a serious one, is that gives them the opportunity to say no.
I’ve had this experience before. I was excited to talk about what I learnt whilst volunteering for a war museum, and wanted to share my excitement with people. Got accused of Mansplaining. It really was upsetting, since I was just talking about a lovely experience and didn’t want to upset nor offend anyone…
They already knew everything you had to say?! War experts out there I guess
1 “fun” fact if you got it, maybe one of the less bloody/violent ones 😇
I knew about this before a bit, however in the museum they have a few bits dedicated to what information we have of Sophie Scholl and the White Rose resistance attempt.
As the Nazis tried vehemently to erase evidence of dissent, amongst other things of course, the story of Scholl’s attempt at gathering resistance has survived - despite her expected demise.I have not read up on my History in many years, however it’s often a short yet symbolic read to the persistence some humans have shown in the face of terror. I do recommend it.
Incredible
Sophie Scholl and the rest, heroes and martyrs
Distributed anti-nazi pamphlets and tried to take all the blame to save their friends. Defiant to the end, supporting their country but not its evil divergence.
RIP:
Sophie Scholl, Hans Scholl, Christoph Probst, Willi Graf, Alexander Schmorell, and Kurt Huber
I am very guilty of asking people if they know about something then telling them anyway.
Too many cases of people confidently telling me they know about computers, point to the monitor and tell me it’s a CPU, then proudly call the computer under their desk the hard drive. The only reason their “CPU” won’t turn on being they need to press the power button on the monitor.
As a fellow autist, but also a cis woman person, I think there’s a genuine and clear difference between the two, but… I viscerally understand infodumps when the other person already knows…
You gas yourself up so much to share the thing and they are like… mmhmm. Deflation city. And it’s hard to stop yourself from sharing your own personal understanding of things with people, even if they can correct you, which you hope they will do if you are wrong, omg that would be amazing!
That contrasts so hard with the condescending “I know more than you” attitude. Because the things those dipshits pick to harp on are usually the more superficial aspects of the thing.
Like that’s nice, I’m glad you know the specific term for the thing, genuinely, now let’s proceed from our mutual understanding and iron out the details together!
But that’s really different from someone who talks over you, is wrong, won’t be proven wrong, don’t care or know all that much (like dunning kruger sort of thing)
That’s a great observation Nougat! Great job!
Thank you! That’s exactly what I wanted to hear!
So, what’s the latest topic you want to info-dump about? I’m curious and invite an info-dump.
I just fixed one of my motorcycles, and I’m currently doing a deep dive on the pros and cons of phenolic caliper pistons. I could go on about motorcycling and vehicle mechanics all day every day.
My brother in law is a guy who knows pretty much everything about everything. Pretty much any interesting topic you bring up, he’ll have a deeper, more interesting conversation ready about that topic. This might sound annoying, but he’s got a way of making it seem like you’re discussing something you both already understand. Like, he isn’t explaining things unless you ask, he’ll say things like, “I’m sure you’ve already seen/heard of this”, “Maybe you were the one who told me this, but…”, (even when I’m pretty sure he knows I wasn’t) etc. By giving you the credit for the information, it removes the feeling of him trying to be superior or condescending. This might still be mansplaining, I don’t know. I’m a man, so maybe I have more of an ignorance for being mansplained to since I don’t have to constantly put up with it, but this feels a lot more like a man explaining rather than mansplaining
It’s exposition for the voices in my head.
So I’ve noticed this post isn’t going over very well. I’d like to add a female perspective.
“Mansplain” isn’t meant to say you info dump or over explain a thing. It means that you assume you know more simply based on sex. It’s a type of misogyny that’s more typically overt in boomer culture, but it’s got a following in the whole Tate movement. I have rarely noticed it outside of that generation in the wild.
Now…Guys do infodump, which leads to this confusion, because a lot of people dislike that behavior too. Statistically women do speak less in mixed groups. Put it all together and it’s easy for people to over generalize a very specific behavior. It does happen, but compared to previous generations it’s not as common. It definitely occurs to women who work in non-traditional fields and take on non-traditional roles and I suspect that the same is true for men.
Infodumping male here, I generally do it because in my mind context is important to make sense, and of course I do it regardless of gender. It honestly feels like a detriment, as I feel myself taking too long, but don’t really know how to shorten it. I do it when explaining issues at work or when talking about stuff I like etc, but have audio has times where I tried to be brief then got the wrong info across or forgot to mention something important or just right make sense. It’s like I can’t find the right balance between explaining and dumping.
I didn’t find this post as an insult or anything though.
Tbh, that’s the main reason I stopped talking about things that matter to me with women unless they are asking me for it and keep asking during the conversation.
If I infodump on a guy, that guy thinks it’s because I’m maybe overly excited about my thing.
If I infodump exactly the same way on a woman, it’s because I’m mansplaining.
The only way I know around that is to not infodump on women. I pretty much trained myself to become an introvert around women.
Yup, i do the same, avoids bullshit.
I kinda overdo it though. Woman’s about to cross a road with her headphones on, running the pedestrian red light with intense traffic, not bothering to look either way? I’m not gonna mansplain, that’s offensive, she knows what she’s doing.
I had a woman at a car service counter take in my car once. She was dressed nicely and clean so of course I assumed she only did paperwork.
I treated her like a human. Explained my car symptoms and where I think the problem is. (Car electric went nuts and lost power steering when i hit a puddle.)
Holy crap she knew her stuff. I mentioned it felt like the alternator wasnt performing right and undervolting, but since it’s only when driving threw a puddle it had to be a component siezing and pulling on the accessory belt. She agreed that’s a good place to start and ran through all the bits in that system as well as thier diagnostic steps planned.
I figured she knew about cars but it felt like she was a full on mechanic and was the manager dressed up.
Treating people with basic humanity should be the bare minimum, but sadly it’s a foregone conclusion.
Wouldn’t foregone conclusion mean that people do that?
Yeah fair point, I forget what word I was mixing it up with. Probably forgone?
Why are people so surprised when everyone starts to favor talking to AI’s…
Info dump goes both ways, men usually info dump about things, women info dump about people. Its echoed in men vs women photography of trips also. Men typically photograph things (here’s a car/bike/castle I saw), and typically women photograph people.( here’s me and my sister, here’s a court yard with people dancing)
Imagine going to school for years and years. You have your doctorate. You’re in the field for 10 years. You work in field that is 93% male. You find a new job, good pay and reputable. The boss on the daily explains things to you. Some things that are just basic science and not even directly applicable to your work. No other new hires get these interesting and informative chats but what a coincidence, all the other new hires are men. I never called it “mansplaining,” it’s just sexism. One cute word doesn’t capture the malice that is often behind it and makes men who view themselves as harmless defensive. Of course there is pointing out systemic sexism that is ingrained in natural behavior but its important to note the difference in a simple conversation and singling out a woman to explain something while assuming she doesn’t have anything in that pretty little head of hers. Personally hence, I’ve noticed it used most often when the woman you’re targeting is smarter than you and this is a subtle power play to remind her of her place.
Mansplainer perspective here. No, it doesn’t come (for me) from a belief that a woman can’t do anything, it rather comes from an instruction from a childhood that boys should always help and defend girls. If I were in place of that boss, my unconscious intent would be to lower the woman’s burden.
I catch myself doing it and stop it but it’s the hardest pattern I have ever corrected insofar.
I really appreciate this perspective and it really does shine light on how one is raised based on their gender. I can think of a multitude of examples from your perspective and also from who you are responding to.
I’m absolutely positive that, regardless of how hard I tried not to, I did raise my son and daughter differently. All I hope is that I did a little better than my parents did for me and my brothers and, should they have kids themselves, my children do a little better than I did, and so on and so forth.
Today is not that day but maybe when I’m dust, society will slowly limp along and evolve. Conversations like this may seem divisive now but I think they’re needed in the grand scheme of things.
Some humans in the future might wake up in a better world because of people like you. Keep it up!
Bruh, I had a colleague who transitioned FTM and he would talk about this all the time. Constantly being told the most basic shit over and over really fucked with the guy before he transitioned, he said not having to deal with it felt like a breath of fresh air.
deleted by creator
No! We must hate men!
IDK, I often find myself mansplain and not infodump. I am not from the boomers, I’m not sexist in any rational way, I’m pretty left leaning, I am though a piece of shit sometimes.
I think that’s how most people are. They don’t identify as sexist, but they do sexist things because of conditioning. No one ever thinks they’re a bad person, best we can do is try to be aware of our bullshit and keep learning.
No one ever thinks they’re a bad person
Well, there are people who do identify as sexists. Hell, the latest Jubilee episode shows that there are people identifying as fascists. All I wanted to say is that I do not believe that men and women have fundamentally different capabilities.
Nevertheless, I do sexist things and it’s disgusting and I have little to no control over it. Hopefully I will grow to control it
Without getting into philosophy, people who call themselves fascists and sexists don’t necessarily feel they’re “bad” because of it.
Yes, I made a generalization, but this isn’t a term paper and I don’t have references.
I’m really nerding out on synthesisers right now, and 99 percent sure she doesn’t know what after-touch means, or why I’m excited that I picked up a late 90s synth with a good keybed and full midi.
My lady friend doesn’t own anything that looks like a keyboard, so I’ll apologize for the over explanation, then proceed to explain why I’m so stoked.
Essentially, I got, ‘I’m glad that makes you happy!’ Which I know means shit up and move on.
If she wants to know more about modular synthesis or rompers, I’m sure she would ask. I wouldn’t force an explanation on anybody.
Hahaha, my wife puts up with that same shit. I’m building drones on Veroboard. She’ll ask how the electric octopus is coming along and then instant glazed eyes when I tell her how I accidentally let the smoke out of a TL072 but at least I used sockets for all my ICs. She did buy me a JP-8000 a couple of years ago though. She’s a good one.
I love to hear people nerd out on their passions. Personally I view it like a gift.
It means that you assume you know more simply based on sex.
Isn’t that misandry to assume the man is a sexist because he’s shitty at explaining things or communicating generally you know like a stereotypical man. We can’t be both incredibly myopic and excessively insightful of nuance.
Let me be more clear:
An operational definition of “mansplaining”: If a man assumes he knows more about than a woman explicitly because he is a man and she is a woman. He explains to her x,y,z from this perspective.
Example: A man always talks over female peers, and explains answers during open ended discussions, because he believes he is better and more rational at open-ended discussions than his female counterparts regardless of any evidence of this, or even in spite of it.
Non-Example: A man informs a woman or others about a topic he is more interested or informed in, at a (possibly annoying) length.
It isn’t misandry to call out this bad behavior. Yes it cuts both ways, but we are talking about this term specifically.
That explanation requires prior knowledge or post hoc knowledge otherwise you’re simply saying it’s based on sex or race.
How is this substantially different then screeching “dei” at every minority that mildly inconveniences you?
I just gave you a behavioral definition with examples and non-examples. I’m sorry, I don’t know how else to simplify it. I can only assume you’re willfully not understanding. Have a good day.
I’m sorry, I don’t know how else to simplify it.
Maybe if you were a man, you could explain it better.
/s
Yeah because clearly seeking understanding means I’m a bigot and yes I see your /s and I’ll say that doesn’t make it much less of a shitty thing to imply.
my /s was to show that this is the sad joke line someone would actually say like it was a truth. I’m on your side…
That’s a neat dodge. How is it different then assuming someone is a dei hire instead of simply an incompetent employee?
It wasn’t an explanation about how to assess whether someone is mansplaining or not – it was a definition of what mansplaining is.
Yeah and I’m asking them to use their definition in comparison, how exactly is saying “he’s mansplaining” substantially different then “dei hire”.
Ed:
https://lemmy.nullspace.lol/comment/66720
Tl;Dr they’re ok saying sexist things because they are a vile human being.
Yeah and I’m asking them to use their definition in comparison
To be clear, no you weren’t. Hence the confusion.
But since you’ve clarified: obviously using any term to unfairly accuse someone of being or doing something is a bad thing. Is that a real question?
That’s exactly what I was doing hence the twice repeated question, you can claim a lot of things but that isn’t one that has legs.
Correct, both are based on assumptions that are as offensive as the assumption that they’re mansplaining or a dei hire or whatever.
My point is that you can’t use either without yourself being bigoted enough to come to a conclusion based on bigoted assumptions so how are they substantially different?
this post seems to be going over well, given the number of upvotes.
It’s being upvoted, but the vast majority of comments are not in agreement with the person in the screenshot.
There also seems to be a consensus that the term is misused a lot.
We probably shouldn’t use “agreement” as the guage of success?
Discussion is way more valuable
I had read a lot of the comments and wondered if it might be misconstrued
Unfortunately I am autistic and explaining something I think is cool. Only it gets interpreted as condescension :(
Its not always but its often enough
Bingo, every fucking time. I’m literally just sharing whats in my head. You know, trying to communicate like a fucking person? Sorry you took that as me thinking you were stupid. Because now i definitely think you’re stupid.
As someone with friends and family on the spectrum, my best tip:
Take a moment to breathe when you’ve completed a thought related to what you’re explaining, and look at the other person to see if they have information to share, questions, or just to express what they know.
This helped a few folks pace themselves, and the break for others they believe helped in not appearing condescending.
Hope this helps!
This is accurate! With my wife, I go on rapid fire about topics and shes so used to it, she interrupts me to tell me to read the room.
It took me a long time to get better at actively scan the other person to gauge their interest, as well as knowing how to ask questions that open up the conversation. I even used to carry a stop watch to time how long I spoke, because I would go on and on.
I definitely get the same sorta thing, you just gotta practice managing it. Usually I’ll say something like “I have many thoughts and don’t wanna mansplain but I don’t know your familiarity…” and then ramble. Context is important, and a lot of people also don’t know where we’re at or where we’re coming from so if we just bust down the door and start telling them how something is then that’s kinda on us to manage.
And if they don’t take the clear opportunities I give them to slow me down and then say I should have somehow known better I ask them how on earth I was supposed to know what they never shared. People will often chill out after that.
Same :c
Noone ever really grows up, some people are just better at hiding it.
I hate how the term “mansplaining” has mutated from “When a man condescendingly explains a subject to a woman who is an expert in that subject, because he assumes being a woman makes her ignorant”, which is certainly a valid thing to be upset about, into “Whenever a man explains anything to any woman” , which is sexist and divisive.
The term is still pretty sexist as originally used though. It inherently implies that it’s a characteristic masculine behavior. If you disagree, allow me to demonstrate:
I just came up with this term, “womancomplaining”, it’s when a woman exaggerates a minor inconvenience into a targeted victimization.
How does that term make you feel? Does it seem to imply that I’m talking about a specific, isolated behavior? Or does it seem more like I’m implying this is a characteristic feminine behavior? Would it feel less sexist if I insisted I wasn’t talking about all women, but if you take offense then maybe you feel defensive about being a womancomplainer? What if I told you to calm down, because if you aren’t guilty of it then I’m not talking about you?
It still seems pretty sexist, doesn’t it.
I think the insulting part of mansplaining is the assumptive nature of it.
This can all be avoided by a soft check before explaining something, rather than assuming a boy/girl/chimp wouldn’t know the first thing about welding/cooking/crochet/throwing feces.
Whenever I have the urge to info dump about a topic I’ll probe with a, ‘You may very well know more about this than I, please let me know before it becomes tiresome.’ 10 out of 10 it works, and usually both of us learn something.
That often doesn’t really work though.
Take for example the classic tech support situation.
- Person with problem: “The remote connection to the device doesn’t work!”
- Tech support: “Are you sure the device is turned on?”
- Person with problem (getting angry): “Of course it’s on. Do you think I’m stupid?”
- Tech support: “Is it the device I see on the background of the video call?”
- Person with problem: “Yes”
- Tech support: “The lights are not on. Please double check if it’s turned on.”
- Person with problem: “Oh, I forgot to plug it in.”
A soft check would have lead the tech support to accept that the device is on, instead of digging further, and it would have lead to potentially hours of wasted time.
The same thing often happens in such situations. The person infodumping does so to clear up potential underlying misunderstandings that a soft check cannot catch. That’s not evil or mean or condescending. It’s done with the clear understanding that the person you are talking to likely knows 95% of the things you are saying, but that the remaining 5% might be an issue and a soft-check fails every single time for that kind of issue.
But it’s also a reverse issue. Many women reflexively assume that any time someone infodumps that person is only doing that to them, because they are women and because that man thinks that women are dumb. Even if that man does the same with other men.
The amount of times i had to explain to phone company customers that their phone line malfunction, which they were reporting from said phone line, was monetary in nature…
I just asume whatever I say is dumb and wrong, so I don’t explain things anymore, I let people find out the hard way, and then act like I didn’t see it coming.
I always like to think of notions like “mansplaining” as social weapons. They can be used against injustice, and they can be used to create it; the outcome varies on the morality or cognitive ability of the person using it.
The judges are out on how it is being used; however, one can be delightfully certain that the Dunning-Kruger effect is in play somewhere whenever the term is used. Which party - who can say?
The post says “basic things”
Tricky - basic is very contextual. Basic to an electrician isn’t basic to a plumber!
Right, so a man talking to a woman in the same field shouldn’t explain what is basic in their field. That is mansplaining. Mansplaining is contextual.
It is used much more freely than that. I agree that it’s a problem when it actually happens, but I’d argue the accurate use of the term is not the typical one.
I agree that it’s not always used accurately. I read your other responses and I honestly used to have the same beliefs as you, but I really tried to observe and listen openly the past few years and it shifted my perspective.
Mansplaining is a real problem. If you try to observe social interactions in detail, you’ll notice it more and more often, you’ll even catch yourself doing it. A lot of men really talk very differently to women than other men.
When so many women come out and talk about this issue, they’re not all wrong. I find it kind of ironic that a lot of times, they’re dismissed because men feel the urge to explain and tell them they’re over-reacting.
Sidenote as a response to one of your other replies: I believe that the way the message is perceived is more important than the intent of the message. My intent with this reply is to help you try to think and observe this issue more openly. If it is perceived as attacking your beliefs and putting you on the defensive, then it obviously wasn’t the right message to get through to you. I don’t mean to be condescending, but I’m sure these same words may be condescending to some people. I’m just not the right person to get through to those people on this issue.
Mansplaining is a real problem.
I get that, I do not disagree. My main complaints are:
1 With the term itself, because a la my “womancomplaining” analogy, it shifts the focus from “this man was being a sexist, condescending asshole” to “being a sexist condescending asshole is just a thing men do”
2 With the overuse which is used to broadly dismiss legitimate attempts at communication. It’s definitely a problem when random guys try to explain a woman’s specialty to her, not so much when an man with expertise tries to correct a woman who’s definitely wrong. The problem isn’t that this behavior is being called out when it happens, I’m totally fine with that (though the term itself is still sexist). The problem is that it’s being used to defect legitimate communication.
I believe that the way the message is perceived is more important than the intent of the message. My intent with this reply is to help you try to think and observe this issue more openly.
I appreciate that, but I’ve done that. I understand that it’s important to be empathetic, I try to myself whenever possible. But communication breaks down when you pander to everyone for the sake of the most sensitive perceiver. No one can control how someone else feels, and you can’t know who is going to feel what way. If everyone treated each other in the gentlest way possible no one could effectively communicate.
Conflict is necessary for improvement. You cannot progress without some disagreement with the current state. If someone is wrong, and no one wants to hurt their feelings by correcting them, they will continue being wrong. In another message, I used the example of a person about to lift weights with a terrible form that was sure to cause them avoidable injury. An expert onlooker holding their tongue for fear of seeming condescending spares the lifter the feeling of being talked down to, but replaces that with serious self-injury.
I don’t mean to be condescending, but I’m sure these same words may be condescending to some people.
This is a perfect illustration. You’ve been nothing but patient and gentle, you haven’t said anything condescending, but you’re still worried that I might think it is, even after I’ve shown clear objection to that kind of hypersensitivity. It’s infantilizing in its own way to treat everyone as if they can’t handle the slightest disagreement without being offended. The whole premise of moderating your communication to avoid offending the most sensitive perceiver grinds effective communication among equals to a halt.
I can understand your first point, but being sexist condescending assholes seems to be more of a thing men do, and obviously this was experienced by enough women for someone to coin the term and have it become an immediately relatable experience. You could definitely rephrase it to be something less sexist like “condes-plaining” (work in progress), but it loses the inherent nature of pointing out that it is something women are experiencing from men. I also agree with you that overuse of the term would be bad. I think I disagree that the term is being overused. Every term is used incorrectly in places. I know this is anecdotal, but I haven’t seen or experienced the term being used inaccurately all that often.
For the second half of our discussion, I think I should clarify that I was talking from a one-on-one conversational perspective, not a lecture hall, group discussion, or a friend group. I think those environments are very different and while perception also matters there, it would be a different kind of discussion. A one-one conversation like a gym trainer calling out someone with bad form could go like: “You know, that’s terrible form, here’s how you do it the right way” versus “Hey, excuse me, I noticed your form isn’t safe and could lead to injury. Would you like some help?” I think both ways get the point across, one of them is a lot nicer than the other.
I believe your communication should pander to the person you’re addressing, if you are trying to have a constructive conversation. You can disagree with someone and present it in about a million different ways - some of them might be offensive to that person, others might be well-received. The reason I mentioned that my words may be condescending to some people was not out of worry or fear of offending you, but as a point that different people expect communication in different ways.
I think you’re doing the same thing subconsciously, you’re saying things in a concise and respectful way such that you believe will be perceived well by me. You could say the same thing in ways I’d find incredibly rude, and we would not be having a constructive discussion. Now if someone finds what you’re saying offensive when you’re not trying to be offensive, then you can either rephrase yourself or accept that you won’t be able to effectively communicate with that person one-on-one.
Basic to who, the man or the woman? How does one know what another deems basic? What appears basic to you is not likely to be so for me, and the converse of this is also likely true.
Better said that mansplaining is a post-hoc label applied to an event with a presumption of intent on the speaking party made. One can liken it to “are you looking at me pal?”, but more socially acceptable.
I think every field has things that are pretty universally understood to be basic. If you and I are in computer science and I’m explaining how a keyboard works to you unsolicited, that’s pretty basic stuff and I would be mansplaining.
I’ve had arguments with colleagues over things I assumed were basic and blindingly obvious.
Never assume someone knows something.
In addition to “basic” being relative, I was also speaking more generally about the concept, not purely about the exact post.
Misogynists and misandrists are both awful. It’s kinda funny cuz they’re essentially the same type of person but on opposite sides
To be fair. The only place i see mansplaining ( first kind. The second one is just to try finding a stick to kick a dog. ) is online. I see and talk to man … also i see womancoplaining online all the time.
Actually, no. I love explaining things, it’s part of my personality. But soo many women told me that I should stop mansplaining, that nowadays I just don’t talk to women anymore because of the fear that they see me as a mansplainer. My girlfriend has to live with that, but otherwise, I hate talking to women because of the stupid mansplaining thing. It’s sexist as fuck and I hate the term.
So there are woman irl that really stop a dude talking with the id he is msng
I like how OOP gets the name wrong also. Shane not Shawn. It really makes it feel extra condescending.
They’re good dogs, Brent.
C’mon Bront. Every dog is a perfect 13/10.
Bratt is just angry for no reason.
That’s so cool you noticed that, Jiff! Eagle eyes over here…
Unironically, thats how I feel explaining things when I get excited, and I kinda like being a kid excited about sharing something. Because either I get to share something I find really cool and you hopefully do too, or you already knew about it and maybe know more than me and I can learn something more about the thing I’m excited about. But mansplaining does imply a level of condescension that I really fucking hope I don’t come across as.
you can ask if it’s okay to share!
Do you guys really start convos like “I just watched X doc and I thought it was neat. I was wondering, if it’s not too much of an imposition, may I tell you about it?”
Honestly I think it’s just a “I don’t vibe with people who need that” sort of thing, I like friends that let me be excited without begging permission, and I would gladly do the same for them.
absolutely i have both started conversations like that and had friends start conversations like that, specifically about the video game expedition 33 and specifically because of a concern about spoiling the media
Tbh I hadn’t considered spoilers and imo that kinda makes sense, but outside of that context I think I just need a different communication style. I’d never feel comfortable around people if I had to do that for convos about anything other than spoilers.
And I guess spoilers really don’t hit as hard with documentaries, which I never really considered until this comment.
I also love explaining things and get excited when it’s an area i know about, and then got accused of mansplaining. seeing that many men in these comments suffered the same fate, maybe some women could become more chill lol
woman here. please explain something to me. /gen
Measles use your macrophages as a taxi to your lymph nodes so they can attack the immune system and the memory cells which are responsible for the immune reaction against everything you already encountered in your life - after an measles infection you count as immune suppressed for about an year, and people who caught the measles lose all or most immunities imparted by prior infection or vaccination. Studies have indicated that up to 90% of child mortality in 3rd world countries have a connection to a prior measles infection, even if the child survived the measles themselves. That makes the current measles outbreaks that started occurring in the last years pretty scary; in london there are only about 60-70% of all people vaccinated, which is not enough for a herd immunity that protects people who cannot get vaccinated.
I hope it was interesting! I love talking about such stuff, was sitting here with a smile while typing, thanks for listening :-)
Thank you for explaining. :)
That’s pretty crazy, didn’t know much about measles. I’m appropriately terrified of what’s to come with all these outbreaks…
Wow, I had no idea. Thank you.
Is macrophage just a term I hadn’t come across for virus fighting cells that we make, or am I right to be surprised that we have them? (I heard of their existence, but didn’t realise they are made by creatures rather than just evolving separately.)
Do mumps and rubella work in any kind of a similarly unusual way, or is it just coincidence that we need those three at around the same age?
Macrophage is just another name for the “common” white blood cell. They are the cells that eat up bacteria and viruses, and are part of the general immune system. The general immune system can deal with the everyday stuff - the pathogens you are exposed to every day, for example low levels of bacteria, but they also are involved in cleaning up the remnants of dead cells. they engulf their targets and break them down (for example using H2O2). If they can’t keep up, they summon additional help, and part of that is that white blood cells travel to the lymph nodes and there present fragments of the intruder on their surface. (nearly all cell types present fragments of what they break down on their surface, but normally those are only their own stuff, which is ignored by the immune system)
The immune cells then start producing antibodies - at random, until one of the antibodies sticks to the fragment presented. The cell that produced this successful antibody then continues to make more of them - the antibodies themselves are like “little flags” that mark targets. Like i said before, nearly all cells present parts of what they have inside of them to the outside - the flood of antibodies is now able to mark all infected cells in case of a virus infection, or mark bacteria. After the infection subsides, the cells that produced antibodies becomes dormant - it is now a memory cell, which can be rapidly reactivated if the same pathogen shows up again, you are now immune.
Measles don’t get broken down in macrophages - their capsule is adapted to that process. instead of getting broken down, the virus infects the cell, which still wants to show that it caught something. in the lymph nodes the virus breaks the macrophage open, infecting the immune cells that are amassed there, and this includes the memory cells. After a while the immune system becomes able to kill off the measles, but by that time the damage is done and your immune systems memory is wiped out.
Mumps and Rubella work differently - that those are in one vaccine has more to do with that the three vaccines don’t interfere with each other, and that the immunity imparted by the mother wears off around that time and the child’s immune system takes over, enabling a immune response.
Superbly informative, thank you.
I heard once that some scientist was collecting phages in the sewer outside a hospital in the hope that they might find help for people with antibiotic resistant bacteria. Are such phages similar, different or the same as white blood cells?
Those are completely different things - bacteriophages are bacteria specific viruses that, like bacteria, occur pretty much everywhere. There are more bacteriophages than there are other lifeforms on this planet combined. Good thinking of that scientists tho - phages that can kill off MRSA would love hospital sewers.
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I hate explaining things, there’s for sure other people out there and even in YouTube that can explain it better. So instead I just give sarcastic answers and hope they don’t believe me. I do think mansplaining is hilarious though, and will mock it sometimes by doing it back to whoever started. But I don’t like getting hit so I don’t do it so often anymore
It would be cool if we could keep sexism off lemmy. This isn’t reddit.
Gender wars stuff is the worst. I would be in favour of it being banned.
Agreed. Gender in many societies has gotten too cooked at this point. IDK how this gender war shenanigans is ever going to end.
Yeah. Too bad all the incels came over.
Mansplaining ord is sexism itself. Agree with you we should discourage such things
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Fr. Sorry that I have 30 years of experience in this area and have observed that you are making the same fundamental errors I made when I had less than 30 years of experience in this area. Fuck me for trying to help, I guess.
Hell yeah I love a good tism info dumping.
Explaining to me the right tires for the winter? Bleh.
Explaining to me the history of tires, traction on different types of surfaces, fun facts about rubber… Oooh marry me.
I for one would love to be called a clever little guy after infodumping 🥰
did you ever consider that autistic women are a thing?
if we ran our mouths as much as men do as if we’re experts on every subject, we’d experience severe professional consequences
Wat
She’s trying to explain that socialization reflects these gender differences in how much/often people speak, despite sharing similar neurodivergent traits. Autistic women are told to shut up way more.
But this was about mansplaining? I don’t recall commenting on ND women at all.
I understand the frustration, but the absence of comment does not imply the opposite.
The comment she’s responding to wasn’t yours. The one she’s responding to was about an autistic trait in general.
I was clarifying the comment you said “Wat” to.
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I’ve finally developed the skill those last weeks.
Info dumping = I walk away. Calmly, kindly but… I just walk away. At work? With friends? At a bar? Walking away.
My life is easier now and dissociation is down by 90%. I should have done that YEARS ago.
“Mansplaining” is sexist. It’s the equivalent of saying women are airheads, or gossips, or talk too much.
Is each man expected to just… Assume that everyone else shares their exact knowledge? Would such an assumption not therefore eliminate most communication entirely?
Or what if we decided to divide up groups by something other than gender. Would it be okay to say “asiansplaining” or “jewsplaining” or “gaysplaoning”?
Can a trans-man mansplaining? Can a trans-woman mansplain? Is there a separate category of “transplaining”?
Here’s an example of “mansplaining”: I’ve been beekeeping for close to ten years. A gentleman joined our group recently who has had maybe a few months’ experience. Wearing a brand new bee suit and gloves, he proceeded to tell me how to carry out a basic hive inspection. He was not assuming I shared his exact knowledge, he was assuming I knew even less than him.
The term mansplaining came about because it encapsulates a very common scenario. I know a few chaps who constantly explain stuff to me that I know a lot more about than they do, and in a very condescending way. One old codger even patted me on the head and said, “A young thing like you wouldn’t know about MS-DOS.” I bought my first computer in 1984.
I haven’t found mansplaining as prevalent among young men, I must say. They seem more open and egalitarian in their approach, more respectful. Though a friend told me, “It’s because you remind them of their granny.”
You’re right. The behavior really should be called “non-consensual info-dumping”. Furthermore, people should ask first and only proceed to 'splain away if emphatic consent is given.
That’s the key. I LOVE explaining things I’m passionate about but it’s rude to just go wild on people, so I’ve developed a process to gauge familiarity and interest.
“Mansplaining” is describing something sexist. It describes a real phenomenon that is necessarily gendered.
It’s not sexist for the same reason terms like “anti-semitism” or “gay bashing” aren’t prejudiced. They’re descriptive of a real thing that happens.
Terminology like this can help women navigate problems that men don’t have. If you don’t see the value in it, maybe that’s because you’ve never experienced that problem.
I don’t know…my wife wifesplains things to me…assuming I’m a toddler and I’m not loading the dishwasher optimally; despite me knowing how to run computational fluid dynamics software and being aware of water flow optimiztion. 😀
That must be really frustrating.
Bit of a difference between “mansplaining” and the other terms in that the other terms mention the target of the action, leaving the actor ambiguous. Anyone could be anti-semitic or bash gay people. Mansplaining is a term specifically coined to say that only men can perform condescending infodumps. What’s worse, nowadays it’s often used just for men explaining things they’re not sure if the other person knows. Some of us are also neurodivergent and have trouble picking up even fairly obvious social cues. I know it’s a problem for me with ADHD and I know there’s also “tism infodumps”. Both disorders affect women too (and ADHD in women is underdiagnosed), but I’ve never heard “womansplaining” used as a term, nor do I think it would be appropriate. It’d be a hella sexist term.
I’m sure there’s quite a few men out there who legitimately are so condescending, they feel they have to explain basic things to “dumb women”. But I’m willing to bet most cases of “mansplaining” are some guy being an idiot and missing hints from the other party in the conversation, as well as just misjudging what is common knowledge and what isn’t.
It doesn’t help that women are just more polite and more likely to let you finish talking even when they know everything lol
But I’m willing to bet most cases of “mansplaining” are some guy being an idiot and missing hints from the other party in the conversation, as well as just misjudging what is common knowledge and what isn’t.
If you’re a man, who are you to invalidate the experiences of women like that?
If someone overuses the term and accuses someone of mansplaining when that’s not what they’re doing, by all means call it out. I’ve been unfairly accused of mansplaining before. But that had nothing to do with the word itself and everything to do with the person who said it. Not having access to that word wouldn’t have made them more reasonable.
Meanwhile the word describes an experience that you have never had, and you’re sitting here saying that most of the people who have had it actually haven’t. That’s kind of fucked up, dude. Take a step back.
The term literally is sexist because it implies it’s only bad when men do it. These days it’s used to describe any time a man explains anything. It’s lost any meaning it may have had originally.
White knightism is sexism in its own right too, because it brings to the table the assumption that women are weaker and need protection, thus not equal to men,
Because you seem to have missed it:
It’s describing something that is really happening.
There is a systemic bias that exists where men treat women this way. It’s a problem that these women have to deal with. Trust in the experience of people who are actually in this situation instead of trying to invalidate them to feed your need to win arguments on the internet.
I never said it doesn’t happen. I said it’s overblown.
Online, literally anything a man has ever said seems to be described as mansplaining now. Offline, I’ve barely heard anyone complain about it - only talking about car mechanics I believe. And I’ve got some people in my circles who are pretty vocal about gender dynamics issues.
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Just because something happens doesn’t make it okay to generalize that behavior across an entire identity.
“Mansplaining” is a pretty mild example but we can look at other more extreme ones. One of the most classic is racists who love to say “Do you know 50% of crime is committed by 13% of the population?”, and use that as justification to the idea that black people are inherently more likely to be criminals. And they may occasionally walk it back and try to say shit like “not you, you’re one of the good ones”.
Or it’s like someone who feels as though they got taken advantage of in a business deal saying they got “jew’d”. And then trying to say “well no I’m not antisemitic, but I’ve personally seen and heard of Jews conducting business unfairly. And it’s common enough that the term has arisen, so it’s gotta be somewhat true. And if you are a Jew who conducts business fairly then I’m not talking about you”. If you encountered someone trying to say that, you would be quite correct to respond by saying “wow that’s actually really fucking antisemitic”. And this is the exact same thing you are trying to argue with the word “mansplaining”.
It doesn’t help that women are just more polite and more likely to let you finish talking even when they know everything lol
I was agreeing with you sooo heavily until this last paragraph. This is a biased generalization of women, and arguably an implied contrast to men.
Maybe it’s just the people I know? Could even just be the upbringing in a formerly soviet nation, it used to be pretty socially conservative in many ways here. Younger people are starting to break out of that pattern luckily. All I know is, in my generation and older ones, on average, guys tend to be more loud and in your face, more likely to interrupt you while talking.
So when my ex-husband first went to vet tech school they, at some point, learned about menstruation. He proceeded to explain to me, a middle aged woman, how periods work, lol.
So your ex-husband was an asshole. Cool story, but the world is full of condescending assholes of all kinds and polite people of all kinds.
Right, just an example of the behavior of note in action. Correct, he was also a condescending asshole. I think those are prerequisites.
That’s great input! Good job pete!
Dude ngl so I was accused of mansplaining by an ex while explaining some technical shit I was talking about and I knew she didn’t know, claiming she did in fact know…
Assume that
everyone elseshe shares their exact knowledge?And that’s exactly what I did, upon her request. I stopped explaining technical terms when talking about something assuming she’ll just know what a buffer tube and an H3 weight are. Turns out that made her “feel stupid” which of course wasn’t my intention, I intended to both A) comply with her literal request as per respecting boundaries, and B) hope she’d see just how ineffective of a system that is for communication. Turns out I was the asshole for doing as she asked, who knew. She threatened to shoot me (she wasn’t gonna do shit but still threatening to isn’t exactly “chill”) when we broke up for the crime of checks notes spending my own money legally, so I’m sure I was the problem lol.
There’s not much of a point to that story really other than I enjoy telling it but I rarely get to since it’s rarely relevant, and to say don’t bother assuming everyone knows things, they might just hate that too lol. Danged if ya do danged if ya don’t, I’m royally danged.
I’ve already heard the term “gaysplaining” unironically more than once in the bisexual sphere to call out gay people that try to gaslight bi people into thinking that they’re not really bi.
Sounds like a conversation that devolved into generalization and prejudice, treating each other as symbols of their identifies rather than individuals.
I’m sure it happens. Tons of bigoted shit happens. That doesn’t make it okay.
Not gonna lie, I had no idea until this post that “mansplaining” was strictly considered male behavior. I’ve had women do the same thing when I’m in spaces or situations that are traditionally female dominated, and figured that “mansplaining” was the appropriate descriptor for that. TIL.
If you don’t do it, then don’t worry. The term doesn’t apply to you.
No, it applies to “men”, and I identify as one.
That’s like whenever racists say shit like “hey did you know 50% of crimes are committed by 13% of the population?”, a black person calling out the racism, and then being dismissed by saying “well if you don’t commit crimes they aren’t talking about you”.
Look, you’re not wrong. It’s just really hard for me to take it seriously.
Does it truly hurt your feelings that men are stereotyped as overbearing and condescending? Are you truly injured by this stereotype? Are you personally treated differently because of it?
Maybe it’s just the people that hang out with, but I don’t find that any of them have had this phrase used against them. It seems more like we’re trying very hard to be offended because we have so little else to be offended by. In the name of fairness.
But that’s just me and my friends. Maybe you get teased with this incessantly and it really causes you emotional trauma. In that case, I apologize, and please tell me your story.
I’ve never had this phrase used against me personally, but that’s probably because I don’t really talk much with bigots.
If we want to build a world that is equal and just for everyone, we cannot afford to keep perpetuating these hateful divisions. I understand that historically, the vast majority of oppressors have been cis (allegedly) straight men, and in the US and Europe they have been white as well. So for some it feels cathartic to lash out against groups that resemble their oppressors. Hurt people want to hurt others. As long as we perpetuate the cycle the same mistakes will keep repeating. But it’s also important to remember that anyone can be an oppressor. Peter Thiel is gay and leading the world into technofascism. Look up a list of the world’s richest person and yes, there’s a lot of white dude at the very top but if you scroll down a little bit you’ll find find Jensen Huang, Carlos Slim, and tons more non-white people. The women of the Walton and Koch families.
Progressives keep asking why they are losing elections, why so many young men are falling into incel or alpha male culture. There’s a lot of complicated reasons for that, but shit like this certainly isn’t helping.
It’s especially disheartening to look through the profiles of some people here who are arguing in favor of this sexism. Because most of the people here I agree with 99% of what they post and comment.
Imagine this was a microagression about any other identity group. Imagine some asshole joking about how Asians are bad drivers to a Chinese person. Imagine that Chinese person gets offended, and you tell them “it’s really hard for me to take you seriously”.
I don’t have any emotional trauma about this. I was raised exposed to a certain amount of toxic masculinity, and as I grew older and strive to become a better person I had to un-learn some bad habits. I didn’t just memorize what words were offensive or not, but gave a lot of thought and educated myself into WHY they were offensive. The word “mansplaining” alone is mild, but what it’s doing is singling put a specific identity group, then generally associating a negative connotation to the whole group. It’s offensive, it’s bad, and it should not be perpetuated.
I think the real point here is that this is the thing you have chosen tofocusing on. You have had so little unfairness in your life that you feel the need to fixate on men being minorly teased.
If you really want fairness, maybe you should focus on the things that are massively unfair first.
Or do you only want fairness for white men?
Lol you have no idea what I focus on. You’re just reaching for a personal attack. Also it’s weird that you specify “white” men when I purposefully have not, because as far as I can tell there’s no racial component to the word “mansplaining”. Are you assuming that I’m white for some reason? I’m not sure if I’m white or not - kinda depends on who you ask.
Bigoted thinking is bigoted thinking, and I call it out when I see it. It’s fundamentally flawed. It’s bad science and bad statistics and leads to incorrect conclusions. It’s the same kind of thinking that eventually leads to bigger things. You cannot in good faith argue for fairness while allowing unfairness based on some arbitrary scale. You seem awfully comfortable turning a blind eye to prejudice when it doesn’t impact you.
You’re engaging in stereotypes, and stereotypes are harmful. Even positive ones, like the idea that Asians are good at math or women are nurturing.
The inequality people have suffered from bigotry throughout human history is horrible, but that does not justify bigotry against people who resemble old bigots.
You can say “minority teased”, but the modern word is “micro aggression”.
It’s pretty damning that most of the arguments you’re using here to justify the word are the same ones racist use to justify using the ‘N’ word, or any other bugot uses to justify their bigoted language.
So what do you focus on then?
I mean, in addition to microaggressions against the least impact among us.
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The problem is when people assume you’re mansplaining just because you’re a man explaining something.
And yes, women can mansplain
Nope
Anyone can “mansplain,” so better to say “womansplain,” “non-binarysplain,” etc. as applicable.
English already haz gender-neutral words for this. For an adjective, we have “condescending”. For a verb, we have pontificate, garage, bloviate, bluster, rant, etc.
Language changes and evolves over time, so we could also make a new word for this phenomenon. “Mansplaining” is unnecessary gendered slur.
pontificate, harangue, bloviate, bluster, rant
None of those words impart the same meaning as “mansplain.” A new word would be preferable.
Bloviate pretty much covers what I do on work phone calls. In my defense (mildly), I welcome whenever someone interrupts me.
garage
Is that a typo or is there a definition of garage that is synonymous with bloviate that my dictionary doesn’t list?
Lol autocorrect REALLY doesn’t like the word “harangue”
Don’t you garage to me!
“Language changes and evolves over time, so we could also make a new word for this phenomenon.”
We did, you just don’t like it.
Yes.
There’s a lot of words people have created that have been deemed hateful, bigoted, and harmful. We call these “slurs”.
And English is a very contextual language so something can be a slur in one use and not in another.
Is that actually true? I’m struggling to think of any examples.
There are occasions where a technical term is used as a slur in casual conversations while still being perfectly acceptable in the original context. “Retarded” for example. That certainly does not apply here.
There’s some words that are more or less offensive in different English-speaking countries. “Cunt” and “Bloody” come to mind there. There’s also been some attempt at reclaiming “cunty” for women which… Eh, I’m just gonna stay away from that one.
“Mansplaining” is offensive from it’s very etymology. It’s baked into the word without cultural context. The word itself is formed from unnecessary and bigoted generation.
The word is formed from an experience common enough that the word caught on overnight. We don’t need to get #notallmen about this.
(Also, “I’m struggling to think of examples”: thinks of several examples)
As a man with adhd, I do this all the time to men and to women, and I’ve been accused of mansplaining. I’m working on it, but I promise it has nothing to do with sexism. I just think everybody needs to know all the details so rhey can reach the same conclusions as me.
And for what it’s worth, I really appreciate when someone does the same for me on a topic I don’t know about. But I understand how frustrating it is when someone does it on a subject I do know about, so I always try to gauge knowledge before info dumping. What catches me off guard is when someone isn’t interested in learning. They don’t know everything, and they are just OK with walking through life, knowing they don’t know something.
Point is, I really do appreciate the grace presented in the post. I don’t mind if you’re being condescending if you forgive me for oversharing.
This isn’t a you problem. You haven’t been mansplaining. This is gender war shenanigans and people being sexist towards men in the name of feminism. Gender in western society is honestly cooked at this point.
Eh, it’s a me problem of oversharing, and I can appreciate that my perspective isn’t a universal perspective. How I’m perceived is as much my concern as my intention. I can’t control what other people feel, but I can appreciate their perspective and respect their feelings without taking it personally.
If someone feels like I’m mansplaining, I want to know about it and try not to do that again. That’s not an indictment of gender relations in modern society, that’s just courtesy.
Quit being reasonable! Gender is cooked! Withdraw from society! It hates men!
That wasn’t my point at all. A lot you are good at jumping to conclusions based on not a lot of information instead of asking clarifying questions.
I am saying gender roles are cooked for both men and women because they say a lot of shit that doesn’t make sense. Like the idea that men are always more logical and women are always better parents. Even the thing about colours and skirts don’t make sense. If anything skirts are better for male anatomy than trousers are. Gender norms and heteronormativity make no sense. They as concepts are cooked. It’s lead to lots of dumb laws and injustice on all sides.
If you had just said gender norms are cooked, I would have responded differently. You narrowed this to gender in western society is cooked. There is no other society where there aren’t bullshit gender roles, and when gender is brought up in a west vs non-west context it is almost always done by people who conclude that gender is bad in the west, but not in other places where more “traditional” ideals about gender are still more highly enforced, like asia, russia, eastern europe, africa, etc.
Sure there are many other societies where gender is also thoroughly and completely cooked to higher levels than it is in say UK, USA, or so on such as Saudi Arabia but it’s a very broad generalisation to say it’s cooked everywhere. There have been and are matriarchal societies even that have very different norms than we do. Not all societies are heteronormative either. I don’t know all the societies in the world. I am pushing it to even say all western societies are cooked.
I guess my point is, the idea of roles based on gender, in and of its self, is BS
Maaaan. Why’d you have to go and do that? I was nodding my head at your words until you clarified it’s the woman folks fault.
You immediately made yourself a part of the gender war shenanigans with everything you said right after.
Men do shitty things. Women do shitty things. That’s it. There are always exceptions to the rule, there are always stereotypes that too many don’t fall into. The bad apple stick out because they upset you and the memory sticks. We all come across asshole every day.
I want to give you a hug honestly. And that’s not being sarcastic or condescending. I just got off work and as much as I want to say what I want to say to this type of talk, I don’t. It does no good.
Having a good talk, sharing a drink or a smoke together and hugging/fist bumping/offering my jukebox credits is way better than man hating just because I deal with assholes all day. So I’m offering my last hug of the day to you because I’m sure you don’t truly believe the woman here was speaking against you specifically or even every man she’s ever encountered.
Men aren’t the devil incarnate. Neither are women, though.
That’s not what I am saying. Gender roles in general are cooked and it hurts both sides. I never said this is the fault of women. It’s not on them that they couldn’t open a bank account for decades for example, or all the sexist things men have done over the centuries. You’ve taken one thing I said and twisted it to a completely different conclusion.
It’s things like men like blue and women like pink, or women wearing skirts but not men. None of these things are actually biological, just like the idea men and women do different jobs. We are cooked because we have invented daft roles for genders in the first place. Don’t get me started on things like the idea women are better parents or that men are inherently violent. The idea that men are inherently better at certain jobs and tasks as well, especially ones that have nothing to do with physical strength.
What made you think I blame women?
I will happily let someone go on about something that excites them because I get it. I feel like there are at least two different points being made here and each camp will not listen to the other.
I will hide out in my studio sometimes to get peace from my boyfriend. It’s not that I don’t love him. I adore him!! He’s treated me better than any other man I’ve been with.
But we don’t have conversations. It’s a long standing issue with us that we are always working on. I listen to his monologues. Even if he has good intentions and asks about my day, most times I can’t get even halfway through something I need to share off my chest before it distracts him and I’m listening to him for 3 hours. Sometimes he’ll even ask, “you know what I mean?” “You get where I’m coming from?” And I’ll take a breathe to speak aaaaand shut my mouth on it because he doesn’t wait for a response.
It can be overwhelming but we talk about it respectfully in the end. I lie, sometimes I get overwhelmed and exasperated. Then he will knock or text me to talk things out. Sometimes he gets upset when I need alone time and then I go to him and we talk. We ultimately apologize to each other. He’s an amazing man and he calls me his goddess. We put up with each other’s bullshit because we are both imperfect and still come back together in the end and absolutely adore each other.
The difference in this particular post though, is my spouse wouldn’t respond the way this dude did. Then again, I don’t hinge my entire opinion on what woman on the internet says and what another man responds to it with. The warp and weft of gender, sexism, and neurodivergence, cannot be wrapped into one neat package of absolutes.
Everyone has their opinions but they can also all be at least a little right.
If the reason you are giving information to a woman is not that you are assuming their ignorance based on the fact that they’re a woman, you’re not mansplaining. Period.
The sexist assumption is a core ‘component’ of the phenomenon.
Also, said assumption can be sex-related, but also all sorts of other things. That’s why I’ve adopted the term “splaining” as an umbrella term for it. “Mansplaining” unfairly creates the misandric perception that only men do it, and that the only motivating assumption is ‘because she’s female’. Both are inaccurate. I myself have experienced this based on several different assumptions throughout my life, based on my sex, age, even where I live.
Is it ‘splaining’ to assume you know more than someone else on subject X because they’re younger? Yes. Because they’re white? Yes. Because they just started in an industry you’ve been working in for 10 years? No.
And so on.
I really hope this term catches on at some point, lol.
P.S. Also, an assumption as described above is literally mandatory for it to count. If I’m explaining something to you after you’ve overtly demonstrated your ignorance on that subject, or I’m correcting a demonstrably false statement, that’s not any kind of ‘splaining’, regardless of what either person’s sex/race/age/etc. is.
Neurodivergents be like: “Wait people don’t want to know this? That’s absurd. So anyway, what I was saying was…”
How many “Men” are just ND?
That’s always been my issue with this whole mansplaining shit. Like yeah, it is a real thing that exists, but it very quickly just morphed into “a man (whom I didn’t want to talk to me) told me something” most of the time.
i’ll literally be talking about my own field in which i’d be considered an expert opinion with people who have no idea what they’re talking about and still get accused of mansplaining. i’ve never liked the framing of mansplaining either. it’s such a gigantic victim complex. you’re not obligated to sit and listen to anybody, let alone someone you aren’t enjoying talking to. if you sit and listen to someone’s entire explanation and don’t interject and explain you rather wouldn’t have - that’s not the other person in the conversation’s fault, be they a man, woman, or otherwise. like, you’re a grown ass fucking adult, why do we tolerate behavior that’s honestly kind of childish? the number of times i’ve seen genuine “mansplaining” i can count on one hand versus the numerous times ive seen men trying to earnestly participate in discourse shuttered out in the name of “justice.”
this is how i kind of feel, it’s always just been a way to shut men down bc they said something you didn’t like or agree with. it’s rhetorically lazy, like you can’t even respond to what’s being said so you default to some weird ad hominem over their penis. not saying mansplaining doesn’t happen, it does, but it’s certainly not nearly as prevalent as people act. and frankly, even when it does, who the fuck cares? you’re not a hostage, and if you were, their monologue is the fucking least of your worries?!?
How many “Men” are just ND?
None. Men are cool to hate, get with the program.
How many women are? They have been notoriously under diagnosed, so what? We still have to live and adapt to this world, regardless.
I got my autism diagnoses at 39 years of age. Not that it does any good besides validating many of my lived experiences.
Consider how many women are ND and have been forced fed the notion that we must sit down, shut up, focus, stay on task, do our duties, be strong women, never rock the boat, never be weird, keep a clean home, raise our children right, get paired with the ND boys in class who do actually get diagnosed so as to keep them on task, understand that boys will be boys ad nauseum.
If I could adapt without any sympathy others can, too, man or woman. Communication is practiced. It must be nurtured from a young age regardless of any roadblocks you’re born with or born to.
What I noticed was that most of my best friends were diagnosed. We clicked not only because we were similar but also because my teachers paired me with them and it brought us closer for it. Meanwhile, I struggled in school myself. I also had to hold the hands of my friends and be their keepers. It makes me upset that they had extra help while more responsibility was foisted on me when I needed help myself and never got it.
How am I a bartender who can absolutely relate to what she is saying and how he responded while still, also, being ND myself? Is it any wonder I never went into secondary schooling with the experience I had from grade school to highschool?
One of my patrons is so much further on the spectrum than I and I would never condescend to her while she is speaking about anything. I’m truly happy to hear about anything she has to talk about.
But if someone, man or woman, comes into my establishment and spoke to me in the same vein he is, I’d respond the same way she did because that response is something I learned to adapt to my surroundings regardless of a diagnosis.
He fell right into a trap she set and he did it all by himself by typing it out and hitting send. If he’s eloquent enough to respond the way he did, he’s deserving of the answer he got. There is no excuse here that would make me forgive his response.
If you’re going to use your diagnosis as a crutch, be off with you. You can disagree, but not anywhere in this little text post is there any indication that he even is NB in the first place.
What she was saying is something that women struggle with NB or not. Men also have their own struggles. Both are valid and there’s no reason to be defensive about her response unless you’re guilty of doing it yourself. But then you’re just projecting.
Uhhhh, this post was about mansplaining…
Can someone mansplain mansplaining to me? It seems like any time someone with a beard inhales sharply.
Kind of like how manspreading is men sitting down.
And the male gaze is men looking at things.
Mansplaining is when you explain a subject to a woman as if she doesn’t know it, when she would be fully expected to know it. An example would be a man without an astrophysics degree explaining astrophysics with condescension to a woman with an astrophysics degree. It sounds silly but I’ve seen it happen, more often than not it happens online though because terminally online people tend to be more condescending.
Manspreading is more often when dudes intentionally take up more sitting space than they clearly need in public when it’s obvious there is enough space for additional people. Often it’s a lack of self awareness.
Male gaze is the way women are most often portrayed in visual arts and media from a heterosexual, masculine perspective, often objectifying them as sexual objects for the pleasure of the male viewer. It suggests that media is often constructed and consumed from a male perspective.
Hell, even a lot of sexualization of men is from the male perspective. Having spoken to a lot of women about how they experience attraction, most aren’t very interested in the hypermasculine view of the male “ideal body” and are far more interested in certain behaviors and mannerisms, or even just the look of their face and hands, rather than everything else.
I’m writing this not as an argument, but as taking your questions in good faith. I hope it was in good faith.
Manspreading is more often when dudes intentionally take up more sitting space than they clearly need in public when it’s obvious there is enough space for additional people. Often it’s a lack of self awareness.
I feel like doing it intentionally and doing it because you’re lacking self awareness are sorta at odds
Fair enough, let’s just assume most of them lack self awareness, because that makes the most sense.
There are definitely some cases where it’s intentional, I’ve definitely experienced dudes trying to take my space on the bus by pushing into my leg that is currently existing in my chair space.
What I picture in my head when I hear the term manspreading is the guy on every bus or subway who is sitting in a middle seat with legs spread wide. It could also be arms around the backs of the surrounding chairs.
You know men tend to be larger than women?
I had a live-in partner complain that all the clothes in the laundry basket were mine, implying she was doing most of the laundry. I looked. We wore the same amount of clothes, mine were just bigger, taking a larger volume.
Size doesn’t make you spread your legs, blocking two other seats or make you wrap your arms around the back of the other seats. I’ve seen plenty of men who can keep their hands and knees in front of themselves.
But … it does? If you’re tall, your arms and legs are longer, so they stick out further. As I found out on an 11 hour flight where the people to my left and right decided they both needed both arm rests, it’s painful to sit with your knees and elbows touching each other.
Wrapping my arm around a seatback would have been a godsend.
Alright, I see the problem. I’m describing how some men literally spread their arms across the back of multiple seats and how some men literally spread their legs out so that each knee is blocking access to each seat beside the and you are interpreting that as people complaining about guys being allowed to use their armrests. No one is complaining that you take up physical space. They are complaining that you are spread out in a way that blocks access to the space around you that you don’t need. If you don’t sit down and spread your knees wide enough to block access to the seats next to you, then the term manspreading doesn’t apply to you.
So taking up unnecessary public space is something particular to men? Do all men do this, or just only men?
Or are we gendering bad behavior to win internet points?
Yeah pretty much the jist of it.
Tbf I see teenagers do it a lot too but their brains aren’t fully developed yet.
0 for 3
So, no.
Probably bait, but I’ll take it anyways.
Mansplaining is when you make an assumption that a woman doesn’t know something basic and fundamental about a topic, and then explain it to them like they’re an idiot or a child. You may not even be aware you’re doing it as a man, because misogyny is ingrained into our culture and social conditioning. Such is the nature of microaggressions; you do them without realizing, because it’s a bias that has become so baked into your worldview as to become subconscious.
It’s easy to avoid doing, though. Anytime you’re about to explain something, to a woman or otherwise, simply first ask if they are familiar with ‘x topic’. If the answer is yes, proceed without explanation, if the answer is no, explain as you would to anyone else without condescension. It’s literally that easy.
“Doesn’t know something basic and fundamental”?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mansplaining
asked if she had “heard about the very important Muybridge book that came out this year”—not considering that it might be (as, in fact, it was) Solnit’s book
He didn’t know she was the author. I mean, that’s a pretty simple mistake to make. I wouldn’t assume someone I’m casually speaking to at a party is the author of the particular book on the particular subject we are chatting about. What are the odds?
But somehow this is extrapolated to any time any man monologues. And implicitly that only men do this, and only to women. Let me blow your mind: sometimes men bloviate to other men. And sometimes women do this to men.
Funny, you cut off the important bit right before that quote where the man cut her off as she was about to explain her most recent book. Here’s a bit of context:
“She began to talk about her most recent, on Eadweard Muybridge, whereupon the man cut her off and asked if she had “heard about the very important Muybridge book that came out this year”—not considering that it might be (as, in fact, it was) Solnit’s book.
See how the context changes the situation? She was already speaking, and the man cut her off, assuming she was unaware, and explained to her something that he would have learned to be unnecessary if he had simply treated her as a conversation partner to be listened to, rather than something to be narrated at.
I can already tell I’m not going to be able to convince you, though. In order to support your point (and, perhaps, avoid any self-reflection) you’ve ignored nuance - generally bad practice when talking about the intricacies of social interaction. Certainly, men monologue to men, men monologue to women, women monologue to men, and women monologue to women, but much like when people equivocate the fear of sexual assault to the fear of false accusations, the thing being ignored is the amount that these things happen; they are not equivalent.
To be absolutely clear: I am a man. An autistic man, even. One who loves to learn, loves to info-dump, and has more female friends than male. In all my time info-dumping to my female friends, I have never once been accused of mansplaining, because I ask before I explain to ascertain their knowledge, and I actually listen when they speak.
Funny how that works.
I genuinely don’t understand what difference it makes. She began to explain, implying she hadn’t said she was the author of the book he had locked and loaded. He cut her off. This could either be excitement on the topic they both had interest in or a slightly rude faux pas.
If she said “yep, heard of that book — I wrote it” and he said “you can’t be the author — you’re a woman” the misogyny would be obvious.
The fact that one person cut another off in one conversation doesn’t mean every time a man opens his mouth he’s “mansplaining”. Or maybe it does, since the definition seems to mean whatever the speaker wishes it to be. Bringing me back to my first post.
Cutting her off was definitely rude, but I agree that it’s silly to ask everyone you meet if they wrote each book you want to discuss with them.
If you had something like
Alice: I’ve been researching a guy recently, do you know anything about him?
Bob: I recently read a book about him, have you heard of it?
Alice: I wrote that book.
Bob: Wow, cool to meet you. I really liked your work!
Bob still assumes that Alice didn’t write the book until told otherwise, but he doesn’t cut her off, and this conversation is perfectly pleasant.
Mansplaining is when you are a male and you open your mouth to say something. It might have been used properly in the past but now it’s just a buzzword used to silence people.
It does seem to be a way to shut men down without making any kind of point. Look at some of the responses in this thread.
Another “emotional invalidation” or “NPD” or “weaponized incompetence.”
Mansplaining is when a man & woman have a conversation, he catches a puzzled look on her face with prolonged silence, he proceeds to elaborate & try to clarify the last topic to clear up confusion so she can participate, thereby pisses her off, because she already understood & the man didn’t mindread. It’s basically like any human interaction.
The only place I see those terms used to describe benign behavior is in rage bait. My guess is that you haven’t heard someone use those terms in a serious way because of an internet bubble or something.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mansplaining Wikipedia says it originated as a call out for internalized misogyny, but now is used very generally.
I bet you could find info on the rest pretty easily.
Also its real ironic that your comment meets the definition of mansplaining lol.
“(for a man) to comment on or explain something, to a woman, in a condescending, overconfident, and often inaccurate or oversimplified manner”.[1][2][3][4]
I’m not a woman though, but if any read your comment then you meet the strict definition lol.
Asking someone to explain mansplaining is mansplaining. Got it.
Homie I gotta stop biting. If you can’t see how your comment was:
- overconfident
- inaccurate
- oversimplified
- and could be read as condescending
Idk what to tell ya.
Good luck out there.
Asking someone to explain something is none of those things.
Oh yeah you are 100% right. It was the rest of the comment.
BTW I think you are a fine fella. Sorry I didn’t say that more. I wish ya the best.
You asked, but then gave three inaccurate statements that have already had detailed answers about the meaning. It isn’t mansplaining because you weren’t directing it at a woman, but the comment as a whole would fit the definition if it was directed at a woman.
Can someone mansplain mansplaining to me? It seems like any time someone with a beard inhales sharply.
Kind of like how manspreading is men sitting down.
And the male gaze is men looking at things.
All three terms are more nuanced than that even if some people ignore the context and use them in a sexist way against men in general. There will always be a number of people who use words incorrectly.
I too hate [opposite gender of reader]
I hate them very much and would not like them on my bed or in my home or in my arms
I hate [opposite gender] and their tendency to be constantly on my mind
Here is a story about how much smarter i am than [opposite gender]
I do not like [opposite gender of reader]. I do not like them, Sam-I-Am.
Okay but what if I’m excited to talk about dinosaurs? Is it mansplaining because I didn’t know the lady im talking to is a paleontologist ?
And people wonder why many men are afraid to talk to women.
Nah, some people might get offended right from the get go if you start talking about the basics with them, but it’s only a problem if you continue to insist that you know better than them once it becomes clear they have an understanding of the topic. Like, if you’re excited to talk about dinosaurs and the person you’re talking to is a paleontologist, but you pivot to talking about deeper aspects of the topic once you realize, you’re all good! Even better if you start asking them questions to learn from their expertise.
On the other hand, if you realize that they are a paleontologist and completely disregard that, insisting to them that you actually know more than them, or continue trying to explain base concepts, then yeah, you’re a jerk.
There’s a difference between being excited to share something and explaining basic concepts. If you excitedly talk to a paleontologist about dinosaurs, they will most likely excitedly talk back.
“Mansplaining” is specifically when you are trying to tell someone else about their area of expertise and insisting you know better than them. For example, if you told a paleontology how to look after fossils.
A lot of it, like most human interactions, is about how you approach it and your tone of voice. I don’t know what your level of social skills are, but if you’re excited to talk about something then most people who are in that field of study would be excited to listen and talk back. Just be ready to learn and accept the possibility that they may know more than you
She was being sardonic. He was being defensive, borderline hostile. This observation is subjective, I know.
When I’m unsure, I just ask. Like this: Are you being sarcastic or satirical right now or or are you being a Shawn?
He was being defensive, borderline hostile.
He was correct. He was direct. There really isn’t any other way to handle an asshole when they’re celebrating their own assholery.
These are just dumb people, doesnt matter man or woman, we have them on both sides
