Can I get some data on the “most people are good” bit?
When it comes to people you meet each day (friends, colleagues, schoolmates, …), are there people among them you’d call ‘genuinely evil’? Is it a majority of them?
Daily reminder that 30% of people would vote to bring back chattel slavery if it was convenient.
Yes, but only for foreigners and non whites. Who don’t matter obviously
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Honestly? Yeah, it’s well over a majority. I wouldn’t call them ‘purely evil’, but ‘genuinely evil’ is pretty much the norm in society. People just tend to compartmentalize their evil.
I feel like this is projection. How tf do you know “well over a majority” of people are compartmentalizing “evil”, in a way so good that we can’t detect it, but somehow you know this to be true and we should trust you? Why? How? What makes you special in knowing this? I’m sorry if I’m coming off rude, I just don’t understand how people can say this with such confidence when they haven’t asked “well over a majority” of humans. 😛
In 2024 35% of eligible voters didn’t vote and 32% voted for Trump. That’s not a perfect measure, but it’s about as much of a case as can be made. I’m also far less inclined to move any of those 67% over to the “good” side than to move any of the 32% that voted for Harris to the bad side.
I’m sure each of those people think they’re doing good though, rather than purposely “compartmentalizing evil.”
In my personal experience, 95+% of people are, at the end of the day, pretty selfish. I don’t mean that they need to be saints, but almost everyone does not want to make small sacrifices to make the world a better place.
I’m talking about people that don’t want to eat less meat or try to consume less, or maybe just give the benefit of the doubt to the other side.
Doesn’t make them evil though, just human. The human brain is wired not to make life worse for its host, or its offspring.
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I reject the premise. The term “Evil” is meaningless.
Yes and yes, unfortunately.
Here’s my counter: most people are idiots
@the_q@lemmy.zip @LadyButterfly@piefed.blahaj.zone
@politicalmemes@lemmy.worldI can’t help but recall of two quotes: one from Rousseau who said “Humans are born good but society corrupts them”, and another from Hobbes who said “Humans are a wolf to humans”. While it seems like both thinkers couldn’t agree with each other because both statements look different, the logical implications from Rousseau inevitably leads to that of Hobbes. I’ll try to explain my point below.
When Rousseau says “society corrupts good humans”, he implies the existence of not-good humans because, as we know, society is made out of people (not just Soylent Green). Rousseau implies that the not-good humans were once good until they got corrupted by earlier not-good humans, which were corrupted by even earlier not-good humans… somewhere, non-goodness was born. Causality requires that a non-goodness stemmed from some kind of “patient zero of evilness”.
Now, religions would be tempted to think of this “patient zero” as something supernatural: Shaitan, Iblis, Angra Mainyu… It’s not exactly wrong (as archetypal representation), but it’s not accurate either: it’s not something too otherworldly, it’s right in front of us or, should I say, inside us.
Take Derren Brown’s “The Push” (a documentary about social compliance and conformity): before the auction gala where (spoiler)the person was cluelessly played by a hidden script to push someone from a rooftop, commiting murder to (in their mind) save themself(/spoiler), Derren conducted a “selection process” where the candidates would answer a test: unbeknownst to them, the test was beyond a questionnaire, it was evaluating who would keep standing up and sitting whenever a bell rang. They weren’t told to do so: they were, instead, socially pressured to do it, because all the other candidates were doing it. It’s the “monkey see, monkey do”.
Those who didn’t watch The Push (watch it, it’s illuminating) might ask: if the candidates weren’t told to do it (switch between sitting and standing whenever a bell rings), how did the behavior emerge? The behavior was initially seeded by actors, people who initially acted on it. Then things got funnier: one by one, actors were removed and fresh, clueless candidates were added, until no actors were in the room, yet the behavior continued. It was carried among “generations” (batches of candidates).
There was no devil behind this behavior. One could argue “Derren Brown was the devil behind the scenes, conducting a social experiment”, but something motivated those actors (e.g. money), just like something motivated the hypothetical “first evil human” to be evil, except… something also motivated clueless candidates to imitate it, just like something motivated the “Rousseau’s good humans” to spread societal corruption.
It’s not a devil: it’s humans, it’s us. We’re born with this wolf inside, and it just takes a “push” for it to howl. It’s inherent to us because it’s inherent to Nature.
Maybe drop a platform owned by a modern-day facist who keeps using your tweets to train his attempt and cyberdyne?
Mastodon and BlueSky are right there.
Anyone leaving Twitter or any other corpo service should not go to BlueSky. That’s the same shit waiting to happen/
I’ll leave Bluesky when it happens, don’t worry. Until then it’s a pretty cool place so far. 👍
Is bluesky worth using? Privately owned and US based so can’t be immune to takeover or subpoena
lemmy is where it’s at anyway.
Kind of a different use case but sure
Actual scientifically minded people there. Might as well use it until a takeover happens.
Bsky markets with being decentralised while being not. I mean people can have their own data servers but because of DIDs moderation and other things go back in the hands of the company behind it.
Another red flag is that a main investor is crypto bros and that the ceo or something is crypto friendly but they gave promises not to shove crypto currency up their users.Is it worth using?
If you use mastodon + bridgy i dont think so
If you want to use it because all your friends are using it: i wont stop you but thats what bridgy is there for
If you dont like platforms where a significant amount is a linux user: then maybe bsky is betterand a + of bsky is that users can make their own algorithms i think easily and that those can get shared.
At least one interoperable PDS has come online, and the network later folks seem entirely aware of the single point of failure that their “firehouse” model suffers from. More importantly, their entire value proposition isnt “were not Twitter”, but rather “if we become evil you should be able to pack up and go elsewhere.”
It’s fashionable on Lemmy to bash Bsky, but the difference really is comparable to the old GNU Hurd project vs Linux. The two most successful FOSS systems ever (Linux and git) took a sucess-first, share-later model while an opinionated actor in charge. I dont mean to argue that this is philosophically better or appropriate for all projects, just that there’s precedent for FOSS starting less open than it eventually becomes.
Oooh, and here I thought the GOP was a bunch of Nazis fucking children. Guess it’s just the algorithm fucking children and opening concentration camps.
We get it, you disagree with OP. Have you considered your comment may come across as a level of unhinged and impotent rhetoric that only moreso proves OP’s point? I hope you find peace soon, and I absolutely relate with your distaste of the current atrocities✌️
So are they atrocities or not? Because you seem awfully chill about the whole thing, like they’re mild inconveniences that aren’t actively ruining millions of lives
hope you find peace soon, and I absolutely relate with your distaste of the current atrocities✌️
There’s nothing outside the text. Whatever you’re reading into this is strictly your fantasy. I’m not denying we’re in a nightmare, I’m just old and stuck protecting the few that depend on me.
You Republicans never cease to make me laugh.
The pubbers are baseless as all hell now–what makes you think I’m one of em homeboy?
Yeah, talk to enough conservatives IRL and you’ll know this is bullshit.
Selfish, evil human beings. Whether they realize it or not.
Except for the elites, I think it’s more constructive to think of them as brainwashed by an ancient meme; potentially redeemable.
Emphasis on ‘potentially’. Don’t waste too much time on them, some of them get off on watching you uselessly spend your time and energy and sanity on them. Brainwashing doesn’t work like it does in comic books. These are people who were already willing to and capable of rationalizing putting kids into cages and the ‘brainwashing’ just gave them an easy explanation.
It’s like a person who has committed rape. Even if they come out later as an anti-rape activist and they’re publicly remorseful and they do a lot of work to make up for the harm they caused you still aren’t gonna leave them alone with your sister.
I’m not on any of those platforms, though, and I’ve been angry since the mid-2000s at least. Maybe I should try to be less angry…? No. No, I don’t think that’s viable at the moment.
The GOP fuck children, btw.
Nah, I’ve talked to a lot of republicans in real life and almost all of them are just fundamentally bad people who derive joy from hurting and oppressing others.
I legitimately know someone exactly like that. It blows my mind how anybody could be so sociopathic, no human compassion whatsoever, even for the people supposedly nearest & dearest to him.
Which ironically I believe is the problem with Lemmy too. I tend to browse unfiltered/all/top 6 hours (with the exception of .ml) and the amount of doom and gloom on here either depresses me or makes me angry with everything being reported.
I find I have to step away or switch to highly curated stuff that doesn’t have a drop of real world events in it.
There’s a certain amount of catharsis in commiseration. Not all the negativity is due to algorithmic curation; a decent amount is legit sadness/anger at the way things are going in the world. Which is valid, imho. But I also understand that it requires some serious hand-curating to get only positive information. Reddit is a lot harder in that regard, as well.
Come hang out with us at !wholesome@reddthat.com and !NiceMemes@sopuli.xyz there is only joy there
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I think they’re saying they use the “Top -> 6 hrs” category to sort posts when they browse.
How I wish that was true.
I’m with you. I mean, its probably the bubble I live in, but I’m so tired of trying to talk to my friends and family about all of this but I’m dismissed as being paranoid or they tell me that Biden was just as bad or frankly most often just some dismissive joke in response.
I’m guessing about as many people care about this as there are who support all of it. The remaining 40-50% is just checked out and thinks this is just politics as usual. That’s my impression anyway.
How could most people be good if they voted for the the pedo king three times?
You’d probably be shocked at how ignorant most Americans are. See those man-in-the-street interviews Mamdani had with NYC Trump voters? They seemed to know nothing about Trump, just had vibes.
If you get your news and political views from FaceBook, you’re going to be ignorant as hell. And if you throw Fox News in, you’ll come out knowing even less.
On top of all that, over half of Americans top out at a 6th-grade reading level. 20% are flat out illiterate. Can’t find the stat again, but an appalling number of us can’t follow along in a novel.
We can’t fix anything in this country until we fix education. How can we even speak to people about climate change, collapsing ecosystems, repeating 20th century history, anything at all, when they don’t have a basic education?
I totally agree that most Trump voters simply know nothing about him. I maintain an acquaintance with a Trump supporter kind of just out of curiosity and they know incredibly little about him as a person, or the things he’s doing as president. They’re generally just unaware. He didn’t even know that Trump abused emergency powers to bypass Congress to impose tariff taxes on Americans.
But that doesn’t mean they aren’t a bad person. Not engaging with the democracy you live in and ensuring that it remains healthy makes you a bad person, in my opinion. Too many people sacrificed their lives to give us democracy and not engaging responsibly is unbelievably disrespectful and makes you a bad person. Voting for someone without knowing anything about them makes you a bad person.
Most people did not vote which is a different kind of bad
Most people are incoherent and parochial. That’s not ‘good’, but it’s certainly not what you see online.
I do very much recommend talking to people. The conversations can be amazing if you hold a straight face.
People are coherent in my experience but parochial is a fair descriptor. Many can talk your ear off about the shiny object they bought, the minutia of the statistics of their team’s star player, or the resort they recently visited while having little to no awareness of broader concepts. Some are completely aloof to concepts that don’t involve them.
Whether they’re good people… That depends on how you set the standard. I believe that a fairly self absorbed person can still be a good person but there are many who would disagree with that.
I wouldn’t say most are good or bad.
But seriously talk to someone at a cafe or bus stop about politics, philosophy, or science. It gets goofy fast.
This, more than anything, is why I stick to the Fediverse. There’s some negativity here, but it’s organic, and generally not being conjured out of thin air to get me to buy shit.
When I log on to FB to check my DM’s, it’s very obvious what the algo is doing, and I can’t be bothered to indulge it.
Not with this government, 3rd world countries are installing solar while our leader is canceling solar and i cannot get panels
It’s a nice thought. Absurd, but nice.
No, Simu. You are detached from reality. Stop trying to humanize POS Nazi garbage. Stop trying to reintegrate them. I will NEVER forgive
Does it matter that most people are good if most people in power aren’t, and they have an army of similar-minded people following their orders?
Because there’s more of us than there are of them, so perhaps we can do something about it.
